Frustrated with the job market and interview success rate

by Eric on 12 August 2012 07:42

I have just passed my 1 year anniversary from my masters degree. There's nothing to celebrate because it's also the same time I started looking for jobs and 1 year on, I have had no success. I have been to nearly a dozen interviews to progress on my career to be an engineer and have had no success.

I have been looking for work around the world. Literally! I was looking for work in Hong Kong and Singapore and still had no success due to lack of experience and their unwillingness to take on a foreign graduate because of work permit issues as well as lack of work experience which I have been dying to try and get over the past year.

So after coming back to the UK, I have still been getting the occasional interview, I hit a massive wall when I applied for a graduate scheme and I realised that it was the exact same role and position I had an interview for 1 year ago (to add insult to injury, I didn't even get to the interview stage this time) It really destroyed my morale and has made me seriously question my career path I want to take. At the same time, it has also made me regret my decision of going to uni for my engineering masters AND my bachelor's from Warwick and Lancaster in the first place.

So where do I go from here? I feel like I have just given up trying now and I really would not recommend doing a masters degree with the intention of getting a job. Im not even expecting a well paid job from the start! just something to get me going on my career path.

so where am I supposed to go from here? the longer I go unemployed, the more questions that get raised during further interviews and the more graduates are coming along to increase the competition. This is feeling like an endless loop that just does not lookalike it has a way of stopping anytime soon

by Lucy on 13 August 2012 09:48

Hi Eric,

I feel your pain, I have been lucky to have just been placed in a role but I was searching for 6 months after getting my masters!

I just saw this pop up on twitter, I thought it might interest you, they want someone with a degree and masters in engineering! http://www.graduate-jobs.com/job/48571

by Hannah on 14 August 2012 15:58

I'm in the same situation. I have a Biochemistry PhD from Warwick uni (maybe it's the uni after care???). I have applied to 50+ positions (from entry level to pushing my luck jobs) and have had only two phone interviews. Each week I think this is the week I will get a job, this is the week that I will feel that going through 20+ years of education (which the government/schools push you to do) was worth while. The depressing thing is that there is no way out of the situation...no one is willing to let graduates work for them with no experience.

by Tom on 15 August 2012 11:23

I have been in the same frustating situtation that seems to take a grip of your morale and destroy any optimism.

I studied Law at university, had some experience and left university applying to jobs and getting constant rejections. The hardest thing is that after trying so hard and spending so much at university on fees, a rejection from a job affects your mental attitude a lot, and scares you from further applications. Upon leaving university i was uncertain about what i wanted to do and spent a year without any real direction. After deciding upon my career i needed to make sure i got a place.

When in this position you need to stop looking for who could do better (careers service), and just think what can i do better. That is what can i do better than any other person with the same qualifiation and same level of experience. Going to a good university and having a masters will onlu get you through the CV stage. You actually need to prepare for recruitment processes the same way you do exam style practice. Get familiar with the tests they do, have interview answers ready and remind yourself that you can get the job. A company will only feel confident in you once you are confident in yourself.

With the two years from finishing my degree to starting my graduate job I gained experience and continued to apply. Getting experience isn't easy though because quite often you need some experience to get experience. My advice is to plan what skills you want to show experience in then make a plan from their, starting with smaller experience and aiming for the bigger stuff when you have something in hand. Don't expect to nail a job straight away, be brave and make a longer term plan if need be. As long as it is a plan and not sitting on your bum then it won't look bad and will actually look good.

My main advice is to shake the negative thoughts and do what you do best, make logical plans towards your goals. Go to interviews believing that you would benefit the company and take it forward, and give answers to questions that aren't just repeated from a forum post that someone else has used but are your own and show a bit of personality (make you appear like a person not just a number in the pile of CVs). And make sure you know what you like about the company, not just boring figures that make you the same as every other grad. Know the figures, but use them to make your point about the company. Try and meet people from the company (grad fairs), because then you can go to interviews and talk about how you liked the people you met, how genuinely happy at work they were etc etc etc.

Make yourself different and better.

I struggled and fought the negative thoughts for 2 years, but will be starting this autumn at a big four accountancy firm turning down offers from others.

Good Luck

by Mr Happy on 15 August 2012 13:40

I think we all feel frustrated.
I want to get a proper job not a graduate scheme which is generalist. My interview feedback is I have a good business acumen but just not the experience in a specific area...
I apply for a lot of jobs that say suitable for graduate but they always ask for 1-3 years commercial experience for so called entry level roles.
So I feel the same running around in circles.

They only jobs I've had interviews for are ones from specialist agencies for jobs that aren't even advertised on the internet and i'm always the long shot too.

by Laura on 21 August 2012 09:26

I completely understand what you guys mean. It is so hard to keep motivated when you keep getting told,
"Sorry, you haven't got enough experience"

and then you say "but that's why I want a job!!"

However, there are sometimes ways to get experience without having a job. This is industry dependent but a friend of mine wanted to work in marketing, he kept getting turned down from graduate roles due to it being highly competitive and him having no experience.

So, instead of feeling down on himself he approached local business', shops, restaurants etc and asked to do some marketing for them for free. They were, of course, happy to oblige. After doing that for a few weeks he now had a list of real life experience to put on his CV and bring up in interviews. He also had some very happy business owners who wrote glowing references for him.

I appreciate this is easier to do for Marketing than it is for Molecular Biology, but I just felt it was a good example of not taking no for an answer and using ones initiative.

by Fiona on 21 August 2012 09:42

Hello Mr Happy

I don't agree with you that graduate schemes are generalist, they are often the best route for a graduate into the work place , hence why the competition for them is so fierce.
Within a graduate programme you will not need to justifiy any training needs, you are mentored throught the scheme and given more responsibility's and projects than if you were an entry level employee.

Like you said though you can work your way up a company from the bottom (and I personnally know people who have done this) .... But you will be starting at the bottom , where you will constantly be having to prove yourself to the organisatio, instead of being earmarked for a fast track though the company that being on a graduate programme offers.

No matter what industry you are applying to and no mater what route you want to take through an organisation, I would always apply directly to the organisation and avoid any agency like the plague.

Do some reserch , find out who are the big major players, the sme's and even the micro 1 to two man operations in your local area, and contact them directly .... The larger multinationals all have their own HR departments and there own application processes and you just are not going to find them on agency websites unless they are looking for short term staff for a weeks work.
Where as the sme's might not even advertise at all, but have been planning to hire new people for a while (in the passed I personally have gotten jobs this way)

I don't know anyone in long term employment that was placed by an agency, my experiance and the experiance of people I know is that agencies are only good for short term employment (a few weeks to a few month) where an organisation only needs a temp short term staff.

by Mr Happy on 23 August 2012 17:04

GENERAL RESPONSE:
I have had jobs through agencies that have lasted from 1, 2 and 7 years not short term, as they are specialist roles. The agency acts as a vetting service for candidates as these are not temporary roles. These agencies are specialist in a specific type of business area.

All my interviews have come from agencies calling me direct, on average I get 2 calls a day for permanent positions that I will have to relocate for and pay between £ 25K - £30K. It’s my CV’s (3 online at present, one for each role) they sell me well.

Do not right off an Agency, in your career you will want to move to a new company for progression, you will put yourself on the market and who will contact you but that specialist agency.

EXAMPLE: If you want a new Non-Ferrous Commodities Analyst you use specialist agencies that deals with Analyst in the Financial Sector:
a) they know the business area
b) have knowledge of the role and what is required more so than HR

You would not go to Brooke Street if you wanted a Non-Ferrous Commodities Analyst would you?

MY ROLE SPECIFIC
- When I’m talking entry-level roles we are on about a basic salary of around £ 25K plus.
- The work role I’m looking at can be used in many business sectors but is a specialist role.

These types of roles there is no fast track the usual career path into management would take 7 years if you’re talented at what you do and in that time you would of changed companies at least twice unless an opening has occurred. Typical career path if you’re talented;
1-3 years junior £ 20K – 35K DOE, ****this is the segment I’m competing in. So I will be against people with experience, there are very limited graduate positions (Found 5) so you get your break through junior roles****
2 years intermediate £ 30K – 40K DOE
2 years senior £ 35K – 50K DOE
Options after 7 years:
-Contracting with market rate of £ 350 – 500 per day self employed, contracting rates are normally 2 – 3 times the normal employed rate.
-Management when available £ 50K – 70K
-Remain senior £ 45K – 55K
The above relates to the role I’m looking at and several job trackers derive the values.
NOTE: job trackers are always good to get market rates for the role and geographic location so you can answer the question about pay as it shows you’ve researched i.e. “For Leeds I understand that the market rates is £ 18K – £ 25K”

Lucky as I got conditional offer for 6 month contract. Every job in this organization even permanent you start on 6 month contract. Its 6 months commercial experience, which is worth more than the pay as it makes me even more marketable.

by Martin on 23 August 2012 17:25

Interesting post Mr Happy but I'm afraid 25k plus definitely isn't the realistic average of an entry-level graduate job! Most people are looking at 18-20k maybe 22k if they are lucky! Due to it being a really competitive market, salaries can be lowered because the companies know people will still want the jobs!

by Mr Happy on 23 August 2012 18:35

Hi Martin, yeah I'd agree I slightly over priced it for my role market rate as follows:
London and SE £ 20 -25 most jobs based here
Bristol £ 18 - 25 next place after london
Midlands & North £ 18 - 22 few jobs
all dependent on experience

Suppose what I've been trying to get across in all posts is that some roles have very few graduate trainee roles advertised, but you will get a junior role advertised that states suitable for graduate.
Graduate trainee roles are quiet different to graduate scheme and that why I said schemes are generalised.

by Martin on 24 August 2012 09:17

I would probably agree with that Mr Happy.

However, surely there are two types of job; one that is suitable for a graduate and one that isn't?

by Fiona on 27 August 2012 10:16

Hello again Mr Happy , first off congratulations on your 6 month contract experience like that can really help differentiate yourself in an overcrowded job market.

Secondly your view of agencies does not hold true in my experience. I have worked in HR for quite a number of years for a multinational company that has many divisions and even though we have agencies on our preferred supplier list none of them are ever used to fill any sort of technical role.

The main reason for this is in complete contradiction where you say agencies can supply the technical knowledge, where in reality you will find these agencies are often staffed by recent graduates, with little to no real world practical experience in their fields, and are usually unable to find employment in their chosen career path so are doing agency work as stop gaps. The turnover rate for agency staff is shockingly high, and it has not been unheard of to be dealing with one person one week only to call up the next week and be told the person that was handling your contract has left.

You also say agencies have more experience than HR when it comes to technical roles, when in actual fact it is usually HR that draws up the job specification that an agencies has to work from when recruiting. These job specs is how a proper HR professional would preliminarily score applicants in order to short list candidates for interview. The Job specs are drawn up not just by HR but by HR working in partnership with department heads and professionals that know the job and the job requirements, in order to make sure the candidates that apply actually fit your requirements, HR does not guess about the requirements of a job.

Once the Job spec is complete we will then advertise the position in relevant specialist publications, advertise the vacancy on our website careers section, advertise on various job boards, advertise in the local press (and national press depending on the position and how hard it might be to fill).

once the applications start coming in they will be graded against the job spec requirements, in order to create a short list based on score. the top scoring applications will then be passed to the department head that the potential employee will be working for in order for him to go through them and decide which ones most closely match his needs in order to select them for interview.

When you compare that to the agency way of just bombarding your company with as many c.v's as they can to hit the quota that was specified, and you still have to sift through them yourself as the vast majority of the c.v's you get sent have barely any the matching criteria you specified.

Might I also make a comment on your job progression path, I don't know what particular industry you are planning on going into, but from personal experience a lot of companies like to promote from within if they can and feel that the person moving up is ready. Also if you are moving company at least twice in 7 years you might find it harder to climb the corporate ladder, as jumping around a lot in your career can start to show a lack of commitment to a company, even if it is for promotion and will raise questions with perspective employers such as; why hasn't you talents been noticed by your current employer?, do you have a hard time fitting in as part of a team hence why all the moving around a lot?, how long will you stay with this company if we employ you? etc , etc and can actually end up as quite a hindrance to your career progression.

Finally I don't understand what you mean by graduate schemes are generalised? each of the divisions in the organisation I work for recruit their own graduates and only the smallest parts of their training is generalist, i.e. stuff like health and safety practices, team building etc.
I do get that you say you are looking for junior roles, and as I have said before its is a perfectly viable way to start your graduate career, but no matter the industry you will have to earn and justify any training needs , and promotions, where as the graduates on a programme will be mentored through, given more responsibility and projects, and have a whole tried and tested support network set up for them. This is why graduates on a programme are fast tracked through companies as they receive the training and support the organisations want for their managers, again it is why the competition for such jobs is so fierce.

Finally as to pay Martin is right the various entry level jobs within the organisation I work for pay on average 5k less than the starting graduate salary, for example a typical line manager starting salary is around 18k, where as a first year graduate on a graduate programme no matter what division is 24k, some might see it as unfair, but more is expected out of the graduates on the programme than the people in the entry level roles, and the graduates are expected to take on more than just what is asked of the entry level positions, and to show a marked level of progression.

Sorry for kind of diverting the topic from the original interview success rate discussion, but I am trying to show how spending your time applying to companies directly can be more beneficial than relying on any agency to do the work.

by Mr Happy on 15 September 2012 11:57

A lot of people posting here have been unemployed for a while.

Not sure if you are aware of the entitlements you get if you have been unemployed for more than 26 weeks and in receipt of benefits. The reason I think this might help is that this may make it possible for you to apply for roles further afield i.e. provide more opportunity.

JSA: If in receipt of JSA for more than 26 weeks you are able to claim the following if you get work.

Budgeting Loan - Interest free payable over 104 weeks varies between £ 100 - 1500 and is discretionary
Link: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/technical-guidance/sb16-a-guide-to-the-social/budgeting-loans/

Job grant - one of payment of £ 100 you do not repay it
Link:http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Employedorlookingforwork/DG_10018789

Housing Benefit: If you have been claiming housing benefit for more than 26 weeks
Extended housing benefit provides 5 weeks housing benefit after your start date
Link: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_10018901

Council tax benefit: If you have been claiming housing benefit for more than 26 weeks
Extended council tax benefit provides 5 weeks housing benefit after your start date
Link: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_10018679

The reason I now about these is that I've been offered a job but I'm going to have to commute and this with my rent will take up half my wages (£1100 in total a month) plus I might not get my 1st pay for at least 4-6 wks so was looking for any help. There was none as I have not been in receipt of benefit for more than 26 weeks.

Just thought if you knew about this it might help you look further a field.

by Martin on 17 September 2012 17:55

Thanks Mr. Happy! (If that is your real name)

That's really useful stuff. Good luck with your new role!

by Ryan White on 05 January 2016 01:02

You should come to scotland and live there. Aparently Scotland is crying out for enginers at the moment, so you technically have more chance of getting a good job with your degree up here than staying down there in England. Hope that's of some help