Graduates with a 2:2-Feeling left out of the Game

by ads on 11 April 2012 09:13

Hi all,

Well after graduating in 07, so basically the start of the recession ,i found it very hard to find work . Who would think that after studying for 3-4 years that you would basically be finding so hard to find work when other individuals whom had not gone to University seem to be doing fine!

Well After Graduating in Business Admin with interest in HR i must of spent easy a year looking for work ,during that time getting thru to assignment center etc. However during the job search and attending assessment centers it was noticed that a large proportion of the crowd where older graduates (25-27) whom had gone into other avenues and wished to return to their fields of preference, and yet where shown more preference by the employers.With this idea in mind i decided to open up myself to new experiences by working abroad with the aim to return , and have that slight advantage other fresh graduates,however that doesnt seem to be the case.

I find alot of the graduate positions seem to lean toward the 2:1 preference yet i find that rather unfair as do alot my fellow graduates. All employers seem to be aim for 1:1 and 2:1 grad as part of the selection process , to be honest i dont feel that a fair way to assess graduate ,yes 1:1' are great and there are alot of graduate competing however i yet to find some one hasnt gotten that degree grade and is doing well , does anyone else feel that way given alot of graduate with 2:1 and masters i have met seem to lack in practical knowledge yet seem to get preference by employers, does anyone else feel the same ? i would be interested to heard your stories

by PC on 12 April 2012 10:24

Hi Ads,

I don't fully agree with the part about employers giving preference to people with a 2:1 or above; I obtained a first class in my undergraduate and now hold a PhD, and am still unable to convince an employer I'm worthy of a graduate position within their company. Because there are now stacks more people applying for graduate roles (than, say, pre-2007), companies really need to find new ways of bringing the numbers down--they do this by raising the bar. I get commended on my academic record, but when it comes to practical skills, employers feel I'm somewhat lacking. It's certainly not fair, but we just have to do our best and not get too wound up over the abysmal state of things.

I know several people who obtained a 2:2 (some who failed) and are now on the road to getting the job they want. They did what anyone facing unemployment should be doing: networking through for example volunteering (charities are always looking for people); thoroughly researching their desired career and making sure they can demonstrate the majority of the core skills needed; contacting firms directly to offer their services for free (you could probably negotiate travel costs).

Try this: prepare a well-written letter and send it to places (obviously make it company-specific). The absolute worst case scenario is they don't get back to you. Even if they say no, they may acknowledge your interest and keep your details.

Good luck with it all.

by Jerome on 12 April 2012 19:36

I have a 2:2, which I'm currently supplementing with a masters and have two graduate offers from great companies (Deloitte Assurance in their London office; Mars Finance Graduate Scheme) both of which stated they wanted 2:1 minimum.

Like the above poster says you need to find ways to make yourself employable, especially if you have a 2:2. That means getting some good work experience (charities, volunteering). A 2:2 demonstrates either lack of intelligence or lack of worth ethic and you need to somehow show that, despite your grade you do have the qualities they're looking for.

by a on 14 April 2012 14:14

How did you apply for these schemes online if they say they want a 2:1 and you have a 2:2? I am in a similar situation and if one of the preliminary questions is 'do you have a 2:1?' I can't lie, so how did you get past this to be considered?

Thanks

by Rafik on 14 April 2012 20:37

I think most companies state that if the reason for you obtaining a 2.2 was down to extenuating circumstances they would still consider your application. Although you need to be convincing with your excuse. Good luck.

by James on 16 April 2012 11:07

Hi all,

Thought I would give my 10-pennies worth here.....

I graduated in 2006 with a 2:2, and have had a variety of jobs since then. My last permanent position I was made redundant from in July 2011, and I have not been able to find a permanent job since then. Only (aweful) temp work.

My opinion is this:
1/ I was only 1.2% off of a 2:1. I do lie on my C.V. and put that i've got a 2:1. This is because, firstly, I am fully capable (and intelligent) of/to that staus/level; and, perhaps more importantly, NEVER, in any of my jobs since the age of 16 have I been asked to provide proof of my qualifications.

With regards to the more experienced rather than the more qualified people getting the jobs, both are true. When I just finished Uni i couldnt find a job because i lacked the experience. Now I have many years of office/Admin experience, I still can't find a good job!
In this repect I agree with Ads, that individuals who did not go to Uni seem to be doing fine. If I could go back now, I would not have gone to uni. I loved it, dont get me wrong, but unless your becoming a doctor or something, it won't put you ahead of the game (anymore)....

by Sophia on 16 April 2012 14:31

I've got a 2:1 and even I'm finding it difficult to break into a graduate scheme.

by Faye on 16 April 2012 17:30

The situation where graduates find it hard to get a Job is so unfair. It shouldn't matter whether you got a First or a 2:2, the point is that you went to university, put your time, money and effort into achieving a degree, to come out either in a very low position of work, or without a job at all.

I graduated last year with a 2:1 in History, naively I thought because I had a degree I would find work, but I was looking for over 6 months, only to settle for a part time role in a large retail company. It was the same type of job I had before I went to Uni. I did not go forward; I just stayed in the same place (plus the debt.)Whereas the people I knew who did not go to University all have good jobs and are earning good money.

I don't know what employers expect anymore, I have tried to apply for similar/ the same jobs as the people I knew who did not go to university, but employers have said that I have no experience. When 3 years before they employed a post A level student? I'm so confused as to what to do now. I feel like I need to retrain and gain more skills, but this could end up back firing again and leaving me in the same situation.

How much merit do employers really give people with volunteer experience? During a recession how many of us can even afford to do a volunteer role?

Good Luck, I hope that you get on the graduate scheme that you want! ?

by Mike on 17 April 2012 15:58

Hi everyone,

Hopefully this bolsters someone's spirit as I know reading this would help me. I'm a first class graduate from a top university and after managing to secure an internship with a boutique bank (through a hard slog mind you), I have not managed to get onto any graduate programs.

Just don't let it get you down!

I spoke to a guy on the train who worked for JPM and his advice was just keep slogging away. If you've got the drive, that's all you need and I paraphrase "There are enough jobs in the city for kids like you with the drive".. I keep saying that to myself and one day we'll make it!

Good luck everyone,
Mike

by Paul Simmons on 17 April 2012 17:24

I agree Mike - I think determination and persistance does pay off. I have been through several interview stages etc and finally i've got a graduate job! Very excited! But I wouldn't have done it if I didn't keep myself motivated! Just don't let it get to you if possible - if it doesnt work out then it wasnt meant to be, move on. Good luck everyone!

by cmcguire on 17 April 2012 18:34

Yes it should matter what grade you get.
I worked very hard to get a first in all my units, why should someone who either didn't put as much effort in, or is not as intelligent, have the same opportunities as me?

You get out what you put in. Mess up uni and what do you expect?
Either you should have worked harder or you're simple not as good as me, and employers should get the best candidates.

For the record, I got a 25k job before I'd even graduated for my hard work at only 21 with no experience.
Work harder next time, or don't set your heights so high if you are incompetant.

by ismy on 17 April 2012 23:05

i would say u were very lucky to get a job even b4 ur graduation. i got my first class honours from a very renowned uni. and i am still looking for a grad position.

by Mike on 18 April 2012 09:53

I've got to agree with most of the content in the above comment (cmcguire). I am not that intelligent innately but I have put so much effort in to compensate for this and I may even graduate this year with a 1:1 or at the very least a high 2:1. I've managed to do this whilst working 12-20 hours a week, volunteering 6 hours a week and having a social life.

You see a lot of students on the other hand who stay in bed all day, don't put enough effort into their 'full time' studies and then expect to get a job after.

I would suggest getting voluntary work experience, getting a paid part time job (even if it is not the dream job, it still shows that you can work in a team etc) and may be try to get on some sort of internship before applying to graduate positions. The other avenue to take would be completing a postgraduate course to supplement your undergraduate studies...however, this is a costly option without a student loan.

by dlr on 18 April 2012 10:15

The reality is unfortunately, with so many graduates around, companies can afford to be as picky as they like. Stating a minimum degree classification is just one way of keeping application numbers manageable.

Lying about your degree classification is a recipe for disaster. If your looking to join a really large firm, these DO tend to check your qualifications. I was required to produce my degree certificates recently for a graduate scheme, and this was just assessment stage! I still had all the interviews to come. So don't assume they wont check before or after making you an offer.

by Ktg on 18 April 2012 10:20

I entirely agree with you Mike! I am the same, I put in a hell of a lot of work into my studies and have tried to gain as much experience as possible! I know people that just expect to get a graduate role even if they haven't tried that hard at uni or to get experience. These things can't just be expected, you work to get to where you want to be! That's how I feel anyway.

by Chloe on 18 April 2012 10:30

The last comment is really unhelpful and small minded. Why would you want to put such a negative opinion on here?
Just because someone gets at 2:2 does not mean they are incompetent or unintelligent! I'am on track for a 2:2 and I will be pleased with that because I do not consider myself to be a natural academic, I realize that my intelligence comes from having more practical skills, but I wanted to give the academic world another try.
Don't make the mistake of presuming that if you have a first class degree this makes you more superior, it doesn't. It may mean you worked hard and are suited to academic work, but you are not better than anyone else.

Keep going everyone, you'll succeed in the end :)

by @Rob on 18 April 2012 12:18

I studied civil engineering at university and graduated in 09 with a 2.2, I got robbed by my university because halfway into my dessitation they decided to sack my project lecture and left me hanging doing something I had no clue of. Due to this I got a very low mark on my project and ended up with 58% overall just 1% short of a 2.1. To be honest its actually hard for folks with 1st classes getting a job too as I know loads of them fustrated at the moment. I had to fill out hundreds of job application but to no luck . Though you can't lie bout your grades " they don't even check it lol" what you could lie about is your experiences. I had to lie about mine and also made up references through friends. I was so surprised at the volume of phone calls I started receiving after I had lied compaired to the previous week of me been a graduate with no experience. I would say forget about the big companies and go through Agencies. I got my present job through an agency , no interviews no nothing , they sent me straight to an engineering company in two days just like that, after 3 years of me killing myself ringing up HR managers to no avail. Just to conclude your experience is what gets you the job and not that piece of docorated paper that we all treasure so much and sleep with under our pillows. And it's also funny how after filling out an application for a graduate scheme that requires no experience, you still somehow lose the job to someone that has more experience than yourself . Cheers

by ads on 18 April 2012 12:28

I agree with chloe, yet i dont agree with cmcguire or MIke , i agree rather small minded with a tad of cockyness which i dont think is appropriate for this forum!


A degree is a degree , who ever chooses to go to University obviously is determined,no one makes a effort to do badly when uni costs money.. If it a 1:1 or not that doesnt make you any better nore should it be and advantage over someone else. I have met many 1:1 and masters graduates ''so called'' that lack the ability to apply them selves, to be honest made me question their university, being good academically doesn't mean you competent practically. i Know many people who exceeded with in the first 3 years of university , yet didnt do so well on the final year due to the course structure, ie being in some courses the 3rd year they stress on combined team assignment ,and if you just unlucky enough the group assignments could hinder your final grades( by far by no means can you explain this under extenuating circumstances).

At the END of the day its a matter of LUCK, you get the job you want GOOD if not then keep trying or open your minded to new areas.

by Jerome on 18 April 2012 22:26

You guys aren't serious are you? How can you even begin to compare a 2:2 with 1:1. They are not the same! If you get a 2:2, without mitigating circumstances, then it either demonstrates laziness or below average intelligence (relative to your peers). I'm sorry but the truth hurts.

As you guys know from my previous post I graduated with a 2:2 (partly due to mitigating circumstances but mostly because of my own laziness, lack of direction and poor work ethic). I didn't get anywhere until I acknowledged why I didn't get a 2:1 and moved forward. It's a hard pill to swallow buts it's something people need to do.

I went out and got solid work experience (volunteering) and took jobs I didn't want to do (sales) for CV fodder. I'm now hoping to graduate among the top of my class with a Distinction in MSc Economics and have an offer from 2 graduate employers (both in the top 100 graduate employers). I assure you if I still had the mindset that the guy with the first who got the job over me 2 years ago was no better than me I'd probably still be unemployed. Because the truth is, back then he was.

by Chloe on 19 April 2012 13:13

Jerome, I was not trying to suggest that a 2:2 is the same as a first, there are other factors to consider such as how the specific course is marked and individual differences. For example, scientific courses such as Psychology are a completely different kettle of fish to say, a humanities course in the marking and the style or writing expected. This can make it difficult to know what the markers want if your not used to a particular style so it isn't always down to intelligence.
I work very hard every day and I know others, particularly mature students like myself who struggle to get above a 2:2 even though we put a lot of effort in.
Also, I think if we were below average intelligence it would have been difficult to get on the course. Average intelligence is probably a fairer assumption when comparing to peers, and more accurate.

by Laura on 19 April 2012 13:48

Well, exactly, Jerome. There seems to be a slight confusion here about what the phrase "better than" means in this context. No, Chloe and Ads, someone with a 2.1 or a First isn't better than someone with a 2.2 in a general sense, or a moral sense, and they don't deserve to treat people with lower grades as lesser or look down on them. OF COURSE. However, someone who gets a First in their subject is BETTER at it than someone with a 2.2 is at their subject - or if they aren't, the employer has no way of knowing that, and you can insist till you're blue in the face that it's due to bad luck or the structure of the course, but the only certain evidence the employer has will still be your grade.

"Don't make the mistake of presuming that if you have a first class degree this makes you more superior, it doesn't. It may mean you worked hard and are suited to academic work, but you are not better than anyone else."

This is such nonsense. These are graduate jobs. Whether you worked hard, and how suited you were to academic work, is EXACTLY what the employer is trying to ascertain. See the distinction above. A First doesn't make you better than someone with a 2.2, but it does make you better at the kind of skills the employer is requesting, which is the whole point of an interview process. They don't want to find out if you're a nice person. They want to know how clever and hard-working you are and how much raw ability you have to apply to the work they're offering. If you know you have poor academic ability, then why are you applying to jobs that measure future aptitude by looking at academic ability? Or at least, why are you surprised when they're more interested in people with better degrees?

"A degree is a degree , who ever chooses to go to University obviously is determined, no one makes a effort to do badly when uni costs money.. If it a 1:1 or not that doesnt make you any better nore should it be and advantage over someone else."

This....staggers me. Really. I heard about students with an entitlement complex who believed that because they paid for a degree they deserved a job. I didn't believe it. Ads, "going to university" means nothing. Anybody with passable grades and the ability to secure a student loan can do that. It's what you do when you get there that proves your ability. Of course a First should give you an advantage over someone else! Just as an A is better than a C and good is better than mediocre. A First doesn't make you a better person, but it should sure as hell give you a better CV. Determined? So what? Determination can only take you so far without ability, and the only proof of ability a potential employer has is your degree and your experience. So if you have a 2.2 you'd better hope your experience and your personality can cancel the 2.2 out, or why would you expect employers to give you priority over the huge glut of 2.1 graduates in this country who are also unemployed?

For the record I have a 2.1 from the University of Leeds. Whose fault is it I don't have a First? Mine, of course. Whose else could it be? When it comes down to getting jobs, especially high-paying ones, I agree that luck and personality come into it a lot more. There is so much you can do to make your CV look better, though, whatever grades you have. I just don't think trying to pretend a 2.2 is as good as a First is going to help at all.

by Naveed on 19 April 2012 14:06

heres omething to cheer u up dude!!! im getting a third in mechanicial engineering from aston uni :( and although i know its gunna be nearly impossible to get a job im not losing hope dude!!! theres no way i wont get a job il graduate in july/12 and it just seems you have to show other skills other than your academic skills so if im not losing hope you shouldnt either dude!!!!


regards

Naveed

by AlexPick on 19 April 2012 16:34

One more vote for agreeing with Chloe. Having a first class degree does not automatically make you better than everyone else, neither does it give you the right to be cocky and bragging of your marks like cmcguire is. As Chloe said it merely makes you more suited to academic work. In fact you may be surprised but most employed look suspiciously at 1:1s because most of these degrees are nerdy people that tend to spend all day home studying and not being very good at working with others or not having their way. I'm not talking for everyone but most people i know that have such degrees tend to have this kind of attitude. I had a 2:1 and i don't think i'm better than anyone having a 2:2 as this does not demonstrate your suitability for practical work. If you want to go for a phd or a an academic career a first is definitely more suited but not for other jobs.

As already said in this forum, at the end of the day it comes down to two things. How well you're prepared for the recruitment stages and luck.

by Ryan on 19 April 2012 21:08

Personally I graduated in 2008 with a 2:2 in a technical degree and supplemented this with a relevant MSc which included a 3 month placement, graduating in 2009 with a merit. At job interviews I was told I lacked work experience and ended up working in a bar 2010. I was accepted onto an internship programme with a global company which ends in 2 months. To give myself the best possible options I applied to numerous graduate degrees and uploaded my CV to numerous agencies, however I have had little success. I have either had no reply or 'sorry try next year.' Together with the fact that the company I am at now has a European job freeze means that in 2 months I will be back at square one. I take on board what people have said, but rejection is hard to take, and endlessly applying for jobs, not knowing what is required is extremely difficult.

by xiy on 20 April 2012 09:15

Lets get something clear here before I give my experience: there are grades for a reason. University is not High School. If you work hard, try your best and put in as much effort as you can, you WILL get rewarded. If you don't, either because you think Uni is a party holiday (granted I did party my 1st year into the ground) or you just dont put in the effort, you deserve what you get. The marking schemes, the structures etc are all relevant to YOUR degree and choice of topics. You control the outcome almost 100%.

That said, I received a 2:2 from Royal Holloway last year in Computer Science, I got 58%. This was mostly due to the sudden death of my father during my final year. I've never been massively intelligent, Ive always tended to use my intuition and plain hard work to figure out hard topics, but I was on course possibly for a 1st beforehand. At the time I had to make hard decisions, I had to prioritise my future over my emotions and I had to WORK MY ARSE OFF to make sure that I even just passed. I got a 1st for my final year project and because I worked so hard on my remaining work, I was given special circumstances whereby a note was put on my record to show that despite my grade, I was simply unlucky. Despite that, I've still made sure that I roll things in my favour. No matter the reason for my grade, it's still not ideal when it comes to graduate schemes. To pad it out, I've done voluntary work, built up a portfolio of my skills (code) and networked with as many people in the business I want to be in as possible. Because of that hard work, I started to be called personally by managers asking me if i was looking for work. I recently got a call from the CEO of a well known music streaming service who said "you're obviously passionate about your skills and your work, that's why we want you to work for us."

Long sorry short: I could never have foreseen this. I was so destroyed when I got my grade but I kept my head up, I worked hard to get myself noticed despite my grade for 6 months. I have *never* been stopped at a sift in that time (and come to ten last stage on all but one programme) because of my grade simply because I include relevant information in my covering letter about what I've done since I left uni. You MUST be prepared to do these things, regardless of why you got your grade. I've never used my dads death as an excuse, unless they specifically ask why I got that grade. You simply have to show that you are a hard worker and you're fanatical about your industry.

My quick tips for those with a 2:2 who WANT to work hard:
- Research your hoses job/industry/company into the ground. If you get to an interview, this will set you far apart.
- Spend a good deal of time creating a good CV. Leave out irrelevant work experience and focus on the core skills you need for your chosen job. Of it requires a lot of management, include any work/social experience where you've managed people and time effectively.
- Network. LinkedIn is exceptionally good for getting yourself noticed and meeting people who can help you. You can also use it for direct recommendations instead of vague references.
- Get some work experience. If It means working in a bar or cafe for a few months then do it. It looks very good on an application when you can say you're already in work. It shows drive and commitment to your future.
- Never let your situation get you down. Remind yourself how much you want it on a daily basis and remind yourself how lucky you are to even have had the chance to go to Uni. Many people in the world dont even get close.

I hope this helps anyone who feels like I did. Hang in there, you will get a break!

by lynn s on 20 April 2012 14:58

I dont feel it is just down to degree classification at the end of the day, im a mature student who hopefully will graduate with a 2:1 and im happy with that. Its also down to individual personality, employers look for accuracy in spellling, grammar and how a CV looks. Making youre application as near as perfect is vital. Employers get thousands of applications in these days of recession and bad spelling, grammar and appearance are the first things an employer looks at. Ive seen some of the CV's belonging to my fellow 3rd years' and im appalled at the bad spelling, lack of grammar and punctuation. And the subject matter for a degree matters...whats the point of doing a degree in a subject if you dont want to work in that industry...for example a history, literature or performing arts degree if you are applying for graduate schemes in finance or similar avenues. Its all very well undertaking a degree when you're younger but how do you expect to get a job as say a psychiatrist or psychologist if you have no experience, these jobs require a lot more than a piece of paper so prove how clever you are.

by Coco on 21 April 2012 21:05

Hello there, newcomer

I am in the same Boat. Graduated in 2009 with 2:2 in textiles design. If i had known that finding a job within this industry i should have not bothered myself.I have looked hard and uploaded my CVs with different agencies. The degree i done is about owning your own company, cos it seems like no one is hiring a textiles designer (specializing in woven material and money in it is very low). I guess in some way i am luck i got a job and i have done some work experience in buying. But Nothing is has come to pass.
Textiles is a dead road for me and i am looking into a different direction. The thing the makes me so ANGRY is the Employer telling you that you don't have any Experience. They don't give any chance to train. its Disgusting and Heart Breaking. The jobs i applied to i was capable of doing them But No Experience :( Annoying. Have not given up just yet.

by indrajit1817 on 22 April 2012 13:21

I have an MSc but in my graduation I scored only 2.2 and I find it hard to apply anywhere as almost every company wants 2.1.

So, going by the threads various conversations, is it Ok to say (lie)in your appliction/online that I have 2.1 (though I have only 2.2) but I also have a postgraduate degree?

by sophie on 23 April 2012 14:56

Of course you shouldn't lie in an application,can you imagine if you got found out?!!! and it doesn't matter if you have a 2:2. Despite what a lot of snobby people think, any university student has had to apply themselves academically to a certain level for at least 3 years, so you may not have got a 2:1, but be proud of your qualification. Employers want to see genuine enthusiasm in a covering letter. Some consideration to what you could bring to the role, personality wise and examples of your skills, perhaps you don't have a lot of work experience but you have just been at uni for the last 3 years working in teams on group assignments, carrying out research for a dissertation and managing your time in order to meet deadlines..... you have everything you need to get an employers attention you just need to think outside of the box.

by Simon Jones on 23 April 2012 17:23

I would strongly advise against lying in any form of official application. Obviously most people massage the truth in their CV's but lying about your degree grade is something that is easy to check and many companies ask you to produce your certificates on employment.

by JJ on 24 April 2012 13:19

Hi everyone, WOW! I know it is tough out there but try to keep positive guys. I was a mature student graduated , Yes with a 2:2 in a BSc with hons, but that didn't stop me from trying to get work. I eventually decided to give myself a go at Self Employment and was very good at it. Although, due to mitigating family issues {Carer now} had to end the business. But, whilst I was S.E. I completed a Masters in Business in 2009, and further progression towards starting a PHd study. So, guys & gals it is not a question of intelligence, BUT, striving to better oneself; if lucky to get a job or to go back for further qualifications, remember the world is our oyster too! No job here then look abroad to gain more experience and a chance of a new life style.
And *message to our UK Government* the Youth will remember these tough times and who was to blame for their hardships.

by Bob on 24 April 2012 14:39

A year or so out of the gate you shouldn't be putting your university grade on an application anyway. Experience is far more important. Take volunteer jobs, take things you don't like - just something to show you can work in a team and get results. Find ways to quantify what you're doing so you can put that on your CV. If you can't get into graduate schemes stop trying, take a lower position, work your arse off, and pad the CV.

Take a really crap job with a high staff turnover, opportunities for promotion tend to be good there. Go into stores and ask their managers whether they're aware of any vacancies in the area.... Go round temping agencies.... Heck take a crappy tech support job and do your absolute best to learn off the more qualified guys.

If you're planning on relying heavily on your qualifications in order to get a good job, of course they're going to matter.

by Gregory on 25 April 2012 07:32

As much as it is about classification of degree, experience etc, the one factor that has a massive influence and that you cannot control is...LUCK!

A friend of mine graduated last year with a 2:2 in architecture. As you can imagine, he was not receiving replies from all his applications within his field, so applied to be a security guard at a well known company. The recruitment manager at the company saw his CV and invited him in for an interview for a 3 month recruitment internship (which he had no clue about as he had applied for a security job). Needless to say the manager loved him and offered him the internship position which lead to a well paid, permanent role as an business analyst when the internship finished.

Just goes to show how much of a difference luck can make. So to everyone struggling, don't give up, your luck can change at any moment!

by Gregory on 25 April 2012 07:32

As much as it is about classification of degree, experience etc, the one factor that has a massive influence and that you cannot control is...LUCK!

A friend of mine graduated last year with a 2:2 in architecture. As you can imagine, he was not receiving replies from all his applications within his field, so applied to be a security guard at a well known company. The recruitment manager at the company saw his CV and invited him in for an interview for a 3 month recruitment internship (which he had no clue about as he had applied for a security job). Needless to say the manager loved him and offered him the internship position which lead to a well paid, permanent role as an business analyst when the internship finished.

Just goes to show how much of a difference luck can make. So to everyone struggling, don't give up, your luck can change at any moment!

by Darren on 26 April 2012 11:54

The argument that being able to get a better quality degree means your just more academic, is a bit naive. Surely if you managed to get the 'A' level grades to get a Uni offer in the first place, inherently means you all have academic ability! So I think using that argument is just an excuse tbh, and being academic automatically mean you'll get great grades.

I went back to Uni after being out of education for over 15 years, I never took my A level, and was able to leave with a 1:1. Prior to that I worked in an industry totally unrelated to my degree. I don't class myself as an academic, but I did realize I'd need good grades to get work, especially being a mature student.

Depending on the degree you take you're being taught the skills that recruiters are looking for, team work, communication/presentation skills, IT skills, problem solving, analysis, report writing, maths, logical thinking, researching skills etc.. all of which are applicable to real world situations to a varying degree, depending on your area of interest. So yes the quality of your degree does reflect your understanding, and capacity to carry out these types of tasks well. People with a higher classification on their subjects were able understand and apply the knowledge they've acquired more effectively that a lower classification. Yes mitigating circumstances can be a reason for doing badly, but only goes so far.
I'm married have two children, and my wife was extremely I'll during my final 2 years, I just worked harder, making up the time spent looking after the family. If you want it badly enough regardless of your circumstances you will find a way.

If you take the attitude that a 2:2 is as good as a 2:1 is as good as a 1:1 why bother with Uni in the first place?, cause your saying the whole process of learning etc. was a waste of time, and the classification is meaningless. I think that shows either lack of understanding to why you were taught certain subjects, and why it is important to do well in them, or you just don't want to admit the truth to yourselves.

I worked damned hard, with no real academic background, with circumstances that were less than ideal, and still managed to do well, because I basically wanted it badly enough! SO yeh why shouldn't I be selected before someone with a 2:1 or 2:2!

The choice is weather to keep believing the excuses, or do something about it, and make yourself more attractive as a candidate.

by Seyyed on 26 April 2012 20:18

DDear All

I graduated in Chemical Engineering MEng program from top university in uk with merit award 2:1 and still I couldn't get job yet. It is very sad but I don't have choice. All four years study wasted. Do I have any chance to get job? what is you opinion?

by Gerry on 27 April 2012 12:18

I agree with Ads, Faye and few others. Having a degree means you went through the hardship of getting one in the first place which is more than can be said for those without degrees doing fine in the employment sector. However, I also agree with the fact that if you achieved a first then you worked very hard for that and it should be recognized and indeed for some industries it is. But it doesn't take away the fact that graduates are not getting the jobs that they worked hard for! Full stop! Preference is given to candidates with experience yet graduates don't really have experience and at the same time they're expected to get on with it with little training. In the past employers just used to train you up. Now it is not so much the case. In my opinion shortlisting candidates with a 2:1 is inexcusable in the grand scheme of things. The difference between the 2:1 and 2:2 is based mostly on academic knowledge (and even sometimes ringing a friend), only a small percentage of the overall knowledge you gain is used in a particular line of work ins some cases, especially with science, where industry work is highly specialized. I believe a high majority of graduate candidates are competent enough for the work they want to do, its just that they need the training to achieve that true level of confidence in the job they want.

by vk89 on 27 April 2012 14:50

I graduated last year with a 2.2 after working hard and pretty much getting screwed by my university as they ended up losing one of my exam papers (unlucky, i know). Anyway even after trying to appeal I still got left with a 2.2 and this has set me back significantly. Although I certainly agree with what some are saying about hard work, a lot of the time it's really just about luck because I know certain people who have been able to scrape 2.1s through minimum work and also find good jobs and others who have grinded for 3 years to get a 1st and still can't find anything!

The whole system right now is really bad because i'm struggling to even find work in admin which I'm way over qualified for because those who have not gone to uni have more practical experience. These days going to uni doesn't really do much good as most of us are not going to get graduate roles due to to high level of competition but at the same time it's hard to start at the bottom due to lack of experience.

At the end of the day there's not much you can do but stay motivated and keep trying to gain as much experience as possible

by Chemist on 28 April 2012 09:39

I graduated with a 2:2 in chemistry from Nottinham Trent University in July 2011.
I am not your average age student whos in their twentys.
I had to work full time as well as studying full time.
So the comment about 2:2 is b*******t as I had to work very hard for it ( not been in study for over 25 years)
I have just found work in my chosen profession as a Chemist, the way I succeeded was that I persevered even when the outlook was bleak and only selected jobs I really wanted!

by Martin Jones on 01 May 2012 10:24

I graduated with a 2:2 last year. I could have put more work in and done better, but I didn't and therefore my grade was deserved. However, I still landed my dream job in Marketing within a few months of graduating. I think there are lots of things people can do, instead of just dwelling/ relying on their degree mark. Get on social media, put lots of time into your applications and just read/ learn as much as you can about how to succeed in your job search. There is loads of stuff out there!

by Lauren Smith on 09 May 2012 10:22

Experience is as important as any degree grade! You need to be able to do it in the real world.

by Anas Tr on 09 May 2012 18:38

Thanks to all of you. It was really helpful reading all these posts. I ve been searching for a graduate job for a year now and I was feeling depressed during this time. Keep applying guys and for sure something good it will appears.

by Karl on 08 July 2012 07:46

I can not believe the amount of crap I have been reading from 1st class Graduates who are stating that because they have top degrees and that they are far better suited for graduate work and more intelligent etc.

I have just graduated with a 2:2 - which academically was an achievement for me and was what I realistically aimed for under my circumstances. Working a part time job every week, dyslexia, family problems, health problems it did affect my degree greatly. I could have been a high 2:1 grade student if I wanted to. Which I think is the same for a lot of people in my position.

It will be hard to get a job now I have graduated and no luck so far. But I can bet everything on the fact that I would probably have better attributes than many of the 1st students. I always have had some form of a job since I was 12 (I worked under my older brothers name) and never have I been without a job. I maybe working in a hotel at the moment and seeking other work. But already I have earned respect for my work ethic, my team skills and supervisory skills blah blah. I may not be able to beat most people in an exam, but certainly when I have performed any of my jobs at work I am the one that shines - I have always done really well.

I personally feel its more about trying to get your foot in the door first. Then to prove your best abilities.Its just starting off which is hardest. Congrats on those who did get firsts, my best friend did and I know how hard they worked. But it certainly doesn't mean they worked any harder than me, as they were lucky enough not to HAVE TO work part-time in order to survive at uni as for a lot of people at uni and have any other extra stresses around the uni work!

by lfc1989 on 09 July 2012 15:08

@ Karl, Guildford » 8 July 2012 07:46
As there are so many graduates out there, by upping the stakes is a way of employers cutting down the amount of applications that they have to go through.
For example I found a job on the internet in IT, it was a junior role, the job spec was most cruellest I have come across at the moment
1st Degree from a Russell Group University
A or B's in A levels
A or B's in GCSEs
Because the employment numbers are so high, employers can pick the cream of the crop

by Judita Bokrosova on 10 July 2012 23:58

Fair comment on the 2:1 preference. I am a recent graduate and by 1% I slipped from the 2:1 grade. I find it unfair that employers prefer upper grades as for the past years I was working also in a management position full time meanwhile studying full time for a career change. I find this as my biggest achievement, however no one else seems to care. I feel that employers are not even taking into account my experience and transferable skills, but all are interested about my new degree. I am in a very difficult situation to find a job now within my chosen industry.

by craig on 11 July 2012 14:38

I was sick my third year and so fell 0.2% short of a 2.1. I tried reasoning with the college but they didn't budge. A similar circumstance befell an older friend of mine who went to the same college but studied an easier course. Unlike me, he convinced the college to upgrade him to a 2.1. 13 years later, he's now a VP at Time Warner, earning in excess of £1 million a year. The 2.1 definitely matters.

However what I find most frustrating is the fact that someone that scores a 2.1 or above studying an easy course in a University of small repute instantly trumps someone that may have scored a 2.2 studying a much more difficult and intensive course in a University of much greater renown.

Surely someone who scores a 59 in Philosophy or Theoretical Physics from an Oxbridge college should be viewed as just a worthy candidate by graduate employers as someone who scored a 61 in Sociology or Politics from the University of Plymouth or Birmingham or where ever. It was incredibly frustrating to know that people who scored BCC or less in their A levels were able to apply for positions on account of having a 2.1 from a mediocre university when I scored a A*A*B in mine and got a 59.3% (2.2) studying philosophy in one of the worlds leading universities.

Oh and just for those that may feel insecure about the classification of their degree hampering their chances in life, remember that Christopher Hitchens only got a 3rd from Oxford and went on to become one of Britains leading intellectual figures. The 3rd was no way reflective of his intellectual ability. The only test that comes close to objectively stating someone's intelligence is an IQ test.

by Ray on 12 August 2012 14:43

I recently received a 2:2 in Business and like some of the previous posts have been lucky enough to find a 27k permanent position with a very good company, however this was mainly down to ambition and drive. My getting a 2:2 was down to having a pressured 2nd year which forced me into full-time work which i had to do while studying at the same time, i didn't defer i just did the best i could under the circumstances. It doesn't matter where you graduated from, being snobbish about what Institution you studied at is bordering on pathetic. Unfortunately getting ahead, more times than not, depends on who you know and who you can influence. Not what you know or how intellegent you think you might be...

by david on 07 October 2012 15:41

my situation is the same as for others here. well mine is a little bit more complicated as I have a 2:2 and I am international too and my first degree is not from England. Fact is that in my old university 2:2 is the average especially when you study law. The university does not give 2:1 that easily for whichever stupid reason. However i do have a masters in law obtained with a distinction but as said earlier when you apply online they just do not proceed with the application if you do not have a 2:1.. further more how was GCSEs still account for????? I mean I did my GCSE donkey's years ago and was not at the same level of maturity.I think that the system of recruitment in the uK is pretty unfair and lack some personal face to face touch. even if u contact them about the issue a lot of companies will just tell you to have a look at their website.

by Hermos on 10 October 2012 07:44

You're all being rather self defeating if you ask me. I graduated in July 2012 with a first class degree in maths from Royal Holloway. I graduated second in my department and first out of all straight maths grads. I still have little relevant experience and I've been trying to break into finance for about 3 months now.

Of course, 3 months is nothing. However, what I'm trying to say is that people with a first in a good subject are not walking into schemes. When people say they got accepted into a grad scheme, they worked damned hard for it. Jerome got into Mars... That's incredible!

Having a 2:2 sets you back. I'd be lying if I claimed otherwise. However, having a first provides no significant advantage UNTIL you find relevant experience and start moving up the corporate ladder. Yes, you are allowed to apply to grad schemes, but that's pretty much it. The rest of the world couldn't care less about that first class degree, and neither should you.

by Matt on 10 October 2012 15:27

Ugh! This is exactly the type of mentality which has caused the overflow of students to university we see today. I can tell you now, 70% of undergraduates are wasting their time, they bum around and party for their first two years and then put a bit more effort in their last year and somehow end up with a 2.2 or maybe even a 2.1. The cumulative effect is an undermining of the value and worth of a degree, especially if you are an individual who is dedicated to your course and to learning. So I do apologise but I disagree with the sentiment that just spending your money and going to university should be enough. The difference between a 2.2 and a First is the only thing sustaining the university as a worthy institution.

by johnnyshonk on 10 October 2012 16:30

Hi All

I just read this forum and was upset with peoples attitude. I have a 2:2 which I obtained in 2006 and have struggled to find any graduate scheme that would entertain me. I worked extremely hard in university, I had to pay my own way so worked 20 hours a week and played rugby giving me a great opportunity to network. It did not help that I walked straight into a recession.I have worked in retail in a management position and currently an account manager in Recruitment, this is not what I wanted to do but due to the market and the fact I had to support myself I took any opportunity I could.

The course that I choose had a drop out level of 50% due to the intensity of the programme also only 6 months prior to starting university I found out that I suffered with Dyslexia which I had to overcome whilst studying, this effected my exam marks but my coursework and dissertation was 1:1 2:1 standard showing that my application skills where ready for the outside world.

It frustrates me that I find people that come out with 2:1 have all the advantages, I know of plenty of people that obtained a 2:1 and where out every night, missed half their lectures and I feel had an advantage on the type of course including the different types of evaluating and marking. Just because someone has the ability to store information for an exam does not mean that they will remember it in the future or can apply it when it matters.

I do agree that some companies can limit their criteria such as they type of course graduated but after that it should be based on if you have a degree, your application and interview. If someone misses the grade by 1% does that make that person much worse than someone that passed the grade by 1%? Also it is common knowledge that different tutors mark differently, tutors helped other individuals more than they should, therefore does this show that everyone on a level playing field? I think not! At the end of the day if a graduate would like to enter a graduate scheme, it should not really matter on their grade, if a graduate went to university and obtained a grade, then they were willing to complete the course, at a high expense to themselves or their families to improve their future!

Thanks for reading

by Happy on 11 October 2012 09:04

Hi everyone

To be honest I don't think employers have a blanket attitude to all 2:2 degrees. I have noticed that it depends on what your degree subject is. If you have a numerical degree such as accounting, economics or engineering they are still interested in you. If you have an arty subject like I do then things are a little harder.

I graduated with a 2:2 in Law and I must admit that I could have worked more effectively and used my time a lot of better. Do I think that justifies employers making it harder for me to enter a grad scheme? I think that is besides the point. At the end of the day, it is what it is and 2:2 graduates need to make the best of the situation. It is not the end of the world if you obtain 2:2, you just have to get creative, think of different ways you can get your dream job and have a plan. I started working in international recruitment as soon as I left uni. I hated it but it was brilliant in showing employers skills that they wanted. I now am on a graduate scheme where I start on £25k and they have paid for my Masters! Yes, it took a lot of perseverance (I applied for jobs every day - I was the crazy girl that was writing applications on the train to work!) but it paid off. Don't give up! If you want it you will get it you just have to be patient.

by Sean on 11 October 2012 10:53

It’s about playing the system people. Whether that is in uni or in searching for jobs. Many of you say that marking is not fair across the board or between different tutors. I’m not talking about sucking up to people here but if you were make a real effort with your tutors and build a relationship they are likely to mark in your favour even if they "cant". It’s human nature to do so! Same goes for applying for jobs, read about the company, read the questions posed carefully and respond, don't lie, but bending the truth on experiences? Everyone else is!

Also some of the attitudes of people on this post with 1:1?? You can't be serious. You sound like an employer’s worst nightmare. So far up yourselves you must be struggling to catch any air! No doubt you have zero social life and zero personal skills... stereo typing I here you say? What, just like saying your ‘better’ than someone with a 2:2? The only thing your better at is modules which in the majority of cases you will probably never use again! Get over yourselves!

Ok so a 2:2 isn't great, I’m sure you will all admit to that. But I bet you have a lot more experience than other candidates and it’s about showing that. At the end of the day someone with a 1:1 might look good on paper academically but have they got relevant experience? Have they got life experience? Were they part of sports teams/societies? Possibly not! You have to differentiate in other ways!

by Lily on 11 October 2012 13:59

Hi all,

Only read a few of the previous comments but wanted to put my point across. In my opinion I think your grade should count when applying for jobs i.e. 2:1 and 1st should be required to get the best graduate jobs out there as it is a competitive market out there. I myself got a 1st because I worked VERY hard to acheive it and feel I deserve a good job because of it. In secondary school I didn't get any A's so I am not the typical 'intelligent student' who gets top grades, I just knew I had to work very hard in University to do the best that I could do, which turned out to be a 1st!

However, since graduating in June this year I have found it to be a different story. I am one of few in my class who hasn't got a job, even those with 2:2s and fails have got jobs before me. So I've learned that in my field of work anyway (construction professional), that they don't care about your degree, but rather the amount of practical experience you have in the field and the person you are, as you just might not be suited in the company. It is a harsh market out there as I've had to learn since graduating, but I do believe I will get something eventually. Everyone keeps telling me just to keep at it, keep my chin up etc and I agree that it is just persistance that will get you there! Some people are just luckier than others!

by .. on 11 October 2012 14:26

obviously someone with a 1:1 is smarter or worked harder than someone who has a 2:2, don't be stupid... Therefore obviously they deserve preference over someone with a lower grade.

by Alex on 12 October 2012 11:53

Afternoon/Evening All

Well dare I say it, what about those of us who got the dreaded 3rd?
It doesn't necessarily mean there is a lack of intelligence, maybe someone had problems throughout their time at uni i know I did my whole world collapsed around me, in fact its bloody amazing I got a degree anyway I was has hardly at university.
But its ridiculous now i'm stuck not even being able to be considered for a supermarket role let alone a damn graduate position. Anyway my point is grade points are not the whole picture I think employers are a bit rough to only consider those who got a 2:1 and above, no one goes into uni expecting to come out with a 2:2 or even a 3rd lol but we do our best with the cards we have been given. At least bloody interview me, i'm sure I could make you a damn coffee or peel you a orange or something.
I think i'm going to have to start lying about my grades to land an interview then come clean after I dazzle them somehow.

by Amy on 12 October 2012 15:21

Hey do you mind telling me that how to fill in the application form since theres a requirement saying that a 2:1 is must in one of their requirements.........

by Gareth on 13 October 2012 08:29

To unilaterally say that you're not getting a job because you got a 2:2 probably isn't the full story. Some people who go to prestigious universities to study chemistry and get a 2:2 still find it easy to get a decent job offer. You need to consider what companies you're aiming for against your degree and your uni. If you went to some sub par uni and walked away with a beer drinker's degree and now want to work at PWC, you will most likely be rejected because you're absolutely not what they're after.

I went to Aberystwyth Uni got a first, was top student; I then went on to Warwick to do my MA - which I received a distinction in. Funnily enough, I had 5 offers for graduate programmes. The fact is, there are too many people with degrees, many of whom are crap and employers don't want them. That's why they are starting to use ucas points as a filtering mechanism as well now - polytechnic degrees in media studies and philosophy have ruined the cache of a degree. I don't have too much sympathy to be honest. Getting a 2:2 is inexcusable in my opinion unless you went to a top 10 uni and did sciences or engineering. Other than that - you're a waster.

by adam on 13 October 2012 21:16

Hi all ,

Right this is a reply to Gareth, Kent who response i am sense a lot of arrogance cockyness ... to be honest if you havent got anything better to say ,dont say anything at all !!This forum is suppose to be constructive.

Right with that introduction covered..... to be honest i am ads the guy that originated this forum topic . I graduated with a 2:2 despite getting 3 marks under a 2:1 yet knew i would not get anything out going back to the exam board and having a bitch about it ... I spent near onto a year looking for work, which as luck happens ended me up actually find work abroad in a job so unrelated to my degree it was unreal but i took it as a challenge ...

Well 3 years later i returned only to spend another 8 months outa work due to the recession . I have just been hired by a top 50 Management Consultancy company for my experience but also degree and still getting offers by other companies. During my work abroad i came across MANY individuals that have so called MASTERs,AND just lack so much practical experience and general knowledge despite their if u can call it superior academic background HENCE I dont agree with people doing MASTER WITHOUT ACTUALLY WORKING FOR A FEW YEARS IN THE FIELD. I work in HR and FROM personal experience i would not hire a graduate on the basis that they have a MASTERS, just because you are more academic in terms of assignments and doing tests (which never know could have been ''copy paste'')... at the end the day ITS A MATTER of LUCK , keep at it, be willing to push yourself beyond ur comfort zone ie go into something different it might be a good thing . The whole 2:1 ,2;2 is just a recruitment process to cut those 5-600 applicants , ps dont just aim for the big companies try the smaller companies

by Humayun on 15 October 2012 12:37

Hi
I just wanted to say that if you did get a 2:2 degree then you do not necessarily have to declare it on your CV. Just say that "I have a BSc in Whatever Subject you did" This way you will at least have a greater chance of making it to the interview stage.

If however you want to get into a graduate scheme which requires a 2:1 then there is no easy way to say this but you will not get in as the employers have their pick of 2:1 candidates and it is best to focus on jobs where they do not look at classification.

I know it is stating the obvious but instead of lying on your CV, you can just hide the truth. While most people do this already it is surprising how many people put bad grades on their CV. I've read a lot of CVs and people put Ds and Es on the CV for A levels and GCSEs when they can get away with putting "3 A levels in subject1, subject2 and subject3". Sometimes dressing up your CV or just having it read by someone who can give you some critical feedback can improve you chances a lot over other candidates.

by luksy on 16 October 2012 22:54

what agency did you call to get your job? i need help!! i feel soo depressed! like my degree was a waste of my life!

by Sarah Morris on 19 October 2012 13:09

I got a 2:2 in history. Due to my own personal circumstances retaking the year and the fault of my university I have only just found out my results today (four months after the official results date!). I am overjoyed i've got a degree at all, and feel those who are belittling those with a grade lower than a 2:1 need to perhaps talk to people outside of their own narrow narrative.

Pretty much as soon as I finished my exams I got on the job hunt. Firstly I worked on my CV. I tailored it for what I was looking for (administration as still undecided on life path). Then I put it up on every job website going. I also contacted directly recruitment agencies or applied to positions so they would read my CV.

Next after being contacted by recruiters I went into interviews. For a one month period I would have 3/4 new recruitment agencies interviews a week, plus constant phone calls about potiential jobs/screening those I didn't want. For a potential job it meant meeting again the recruiter, then the next phase of interview rounds. In total I got 1 day temp work and 4 interviews.

I've now been working for four months in a temp role in a small company where I am the only administrator and given a huge amount of responsibility. It may not be my 'perfect job' (what is?!) at the moment but it is a building block.

I worked all the way throughout University in shops, I volunteered in a museum and worked in admin. No matter what your result you have to graft. Everyone has their own different ways of achievement. Just use everything you've got to push through to the right direction. And for god's sake do not listen to these numpty's who say your life is ruined if you have a 2:2...

by Craig on 21 October 2012 17:32

WoW I'm shocked at of the comments i've seen on here

For those who have stated that your classification somehow comprehends an immediate god given right to the higher paid jobs. I think it's worth putting it into context some of the ACHEIVEMENTS of non graduates.

Just for the argument i am going to state 2 people to bare in mind and one TV show which time and time again i've seen these people with these ideas been shown the door hundred's of times.

Firstly if we take a look at the achievements of Sir Alan Suger. yes that's right a Sir. Now we may all have a degree but i am still in somewhat envy of this amazing person. His inteeligence wasnt seen in the classroom it was seen in being able to see an opportunity, exploit this and gain the full pottentail out of it. Sir alan has biult up his empire from scratch, some of his accheivements have led to me being able to afford a laptop and a PC. If it was not for his vision when it came to the first affordable home computer the amstrad cpc 464 we probably would not be sat here in this forum today or be it on the same scale. This is something that people with a 1st class degree on a whole probably would not have the drive to do because as the comments seem to suggest it's their god given right for this to be 'handed on a plate' to them. Well your acedemic achievement is somewhat low in comparision to Alan Sugers achivement by this age. By this age he had already brought to the market an affordable (and very profitable) AMSTRAD HI-FI because he saw exactly where the market was heading and seen an opporunity which some of his rivals missed in injection moulding plastice which was by a far cheaper proccess than the widely used vaccuum-forming proccess. Now was this all just luck? Well no not completely allot of work went into Sir Alan being able to have the money to be able to finance these ventures. I suppose i am suggesting reading his biography 'What You See is what you Get' (2010).

Secondly lets have a look at Sir Richard Branson. Now where did his story begin. Well actually it was when he actually dropped out of university. I beleive it was around this time he started Virgin Records. and I beleive his branding virgin was formed out of frustration in life's circumstances. Thats all i am going to say on his acheivements. I think needless to say his acheivemnts in a whole are well documented, but it's worth noting he actually is dislexic and went to univeristy and dropped out due to family circumstances.

I think my agrument in largely is simple if people who think having a 1st or a 2:1makes them great . Well done, youve managed to show the skill's and apptitudes employers are indeed after. You happen to be the safe bet, the ones which may garuntee career longevity. For the rest of use with 2:2's, yes we may have some more work to do to get our dream career's but i beleive not being the safe bet at the start of our careers is the one thing that is going to help us be the high achiever's in the end. Yes we are all goin to have to swallow the pill and accept we may not have to do some jobs we don't want to do to biuld up our Cv portfolio's. But at some piont along the way we are going to end up with far greater life experiences, work experiences socail expriences than what peole who just simply being the safe bet won't get. I hope to think having the 2:2 has made me stronger end player and it has because just like many of us i do have mitigating circumstances in fact i had a rough time acheiving a 2:2 due to having a brain injury attained not long after leaving school. I suppose what i am saying is you get drive from life experiences and i would hate to be the safe bet.

I think i can sum my reaction to these comments up in the words of John Keats 'I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest'.

by anon on 22 October 2012 08:53

I graduated this summer as well with a 2:2 in French and Italian. I can say from experience even at a young age finding a job is not easy. But there are jobs out there, personally like most people here I don't have the right grade academically, but if you supplement that with working experience, you are sure to get the job over someone who is more academically qualified.

Also, England is really not the only place to work try abroad.... I'm working now in Poland after stints in France and Italy for a major company.

by omar on 23 October 2012 23:39

Graduate in Engineering. 2:2. One silly mistake. Criminal record. No chance of finding a job!!

by Andy on 24 October 2012 23:02

It is a pity that your 2:1 didn't help you spell incompetent!

by M on 25 October 2012 09:31

If you have a 2:2 bachelors look at doing a master's degree, and get it to 2:1. Pick your course carefully as a lot of postgraduate education in the UK is a shambles (dumbed down courses etc). I've seen a lot of positions lower the number of years worth of work experience required by 2-3 if the applicant has a master's degree, so it's definitely worth it. If a master's isn't an options get as much work experience as you can, and use the skills gained to really sell yourself on your cv.

Go over your cv and cover letter with a tooth pick and make sure it contains no errors. Errors = cv in bin.

Work on your cv every week, and after you've applied to 30-50 jobs with no luck re-evaluate what your doing and where you are going wrong. Have someone in business go over your cv too. You might think it's all relevant but half of the content probably doesn't need to be there. Put you got a second class degree, not mentioning whether it's upper or lower class.

Volunteer.

Do extra exams through Pearson VUE testing centre's.

Most importantly make sure you have the right attitude. No one owes you a living, and going to university doesn't mean your entitled to a job. It's an employers market and it's up to you to show you're the right candidate for the job. Coming ithe job market during a recession like this will most likely set you back 10 years. I came out of university in 2009 and was getting interviews with top UK organisations with a 2:2. Finished a master's in 2011, and only after a year of being unemployed and continuing to study like a dog (12-15 hours a day) was I able to get interviews with top employers (including Google). However I've taken a job with a smaller firm to get some experience (and pay of debts) before I move to London for one of the companies I want to work for.

If your at university my advice is to get off your arse and get applying for jobs. The longer you leave it after university, the harder it gets.

by Andrea on 26 October 2012 23:25

I felt I had to add this...This is also a reply to Gareth for saying your a waster for getting a 2.2. What rubbish, I got a 2.2 falling short of a 2.1 by 1.6 of a mark. I have three kids, work, have a partner and a house to run and went back to education later in life..so who are you to tell people they are wasters!!! I'm so proud of my efforts and that of others for trying to better themselves. Oh and everyone can't be so cock sure of their self. With an attitude like that I'm surprised your'll get anywhere in life!

by Shumaila on 28 October 2012 17:19

hi,
I do not know how to write key competency questions. I think I always get rejected because of that.

by cathy on 29 October 2012 08:50

The advice I've always been given is to use the STAR technique:

S-Situation- what it a university project, extra-curricular activity, something at work etc?

T-Task- what did you actually have to do? i.e. create a presentation, advise a customer etc

Actions- how did you go about doing it? i.e. split up tasks among the group, created a timetable, brainstormed ideas etc. The key here is to talk about what YOU did, NOT what the team did.

Results- what happened? It's best to quantify these if you can e.g. mark or grade, raised £x for charity etc. Also talk about what skills you learnt, both soft and hard e.g. communication, teamwork etc.

Write it out in Word first, and get someone to read it through before you press the submit button.

Hope that helps

by Dave on 29 October 2012 14:15

I got a 2:2 and my friends this year got 2:1 and 1:1 after we all studied the same accounting degree. Right now none of us are being accepted for accounting jobs, and the reason for this is that none of us have the specific experience or accounting software package skills employers are looking for.
All my coursework was 1st and 2:1 but my exam grades pulled me down to a 2:2. This may be due to a neurological issue I have but I don't think I'm less intelligent than anyone else because some of my coursework marks were higher than my friends with who got 1st and 2:1.

Right now I am getting the software package skills required by employers and during this time I am building on my experience through temping and part time jobs. This is making me more useful than a graduate with just higher qualifications.

All those graduates with 1st and 2:1 who think they are going to walk from uni and into a job are dreaming. Employers want experience more than anything as they don't want to waste time training academics. I think apprentaships and internships are the way to go for jobs. University degrees are no longer enough to get any job straight away.

It's top trumps game and qualifications experience software skills and core personal skills are listed on the trump card. You can't have lots of stars in one area you have to have lots of stars across all areas..

And remember most chairman directors and COS who have built the big businesses of today never went to university and most do not have degrees. Look at Lord Alan Sugar he has no degree at all and became successful on experience determination and understanding what it is he is getting involved in.

by Robin on 30 October 2012 09:06

Hi all,

I have been one of the fortunate oens to land a job within 4 months of my graduation day. (I have got 1:1 but worked my ass off; no sleep)

A bit of reality check for everyone:

As previously mentioned by others, gettign a 2:2 is not the end of the world; however, there are strings attached.

One of my best firends finished with a 2:2 and she struggled for 8 months to find a suitable and a degree related job. Finally, she managed to get the geological job she wanted to get. If you do have a 2:2 you need to have some previous working experience (this shows you are worthy the application) or perhaps go and do your Master's degree to bring your classification to 2:1.

Sicne the job market is so fragile at the moment, the employers look for a degree as well as relevant experience.

My recommendations are:

1) Try your best to get a 1:1 or 2:1
2) Find some part-time jobs while studying or before graduating (I managed to get an intership at the firm after graduation)
3) Ensure you are able to use MS Office (Be honest about your level when applying)
4) Be involved in many university and sports activities (Run a club/society; be involved)

Even if you do get a 2:2 and you have some experience and/or have run a society/club and achieved soem awards you have great chances of making it.

I hope this helps and good luck to everyone (Be patient)

by Endsleigh on 30 October 2012 14:06

Every graduate scheme is different, some may require a certain degree, but as long as you never lie about what you did get (as someone above has suggested) and show a company what you can bring to them you may still be in with a chance.

by Gos on 31 October 2012 17:36

The sad fact here is that, regardless of whatever reason people have for having achieved lower than a 2.1, employers will not care. The sheer volume of graduate applicants for these roles necessitates a very strict screening process. An academic friend of mine was helping screen applicants for research positions at his university a few years back. He told me that the first step of this process was separating out all the 2.1's and 1.1's into a pile, the rest were binned out of hand. Whether people like it or not, your degree classification is a measure of your potential, work ethic and (when tied into your extra curricular experience) a measure of the sort of engagement they can expect from you as a person.

From my personal experience, I graduated last year with a very low (just scraped) 2.1. I felt lucky to get it in the end. Not because I found my subject difficult, but because I sacked it off, didn't work hard and didn't do a single extra-curricular activity. I had no luck at securing employment beyond one failed assessment centre and one failed interview. I had to get a temp job at a major supermarket just to afford to survive. The temp job turned permanent, and a couple of months later I was offered a supervisory position. After 8 more months I was promoted to a deputy manager with this company, making more annually than the graduate level jobs I had applied for. This was only possible through hard work, determination and working long, exhausting days.

Moral of the story? Your degree "entitles" you to squat if you can't back it up with solid evidence that you are a worthwhile person to employ. I got a 2.1, but I'd have been able to do what I've done over the past year without even having gone to college. A 2.2 attributed to laziness, not being academic, being a mature student with children etc shouldn't hold anyone back from the career they want if they've got the determination to just do what needs to be done.

by Shan on 02 November 2012 16:28

I disagree with the comments that getting a 2:2 makes you incompetent or unintelligent. I graduated with a 2:2 this year and was actually only 0.6% off a 2:1. I am neither incompetent or unintelligible and I worked extremely, and I mean extremely hard on my degree. For the most part I put in a lot more work than half of the class, certainly more than the people who got the same grade I did, and in some cases more work than the people who got 1sts. But one of my lecturers did not like me or the choices I made for my final project and dissertation, and being a practical course it was the practical side that let me down, not the academic side, in fact one of my lecturers told me I was at the level of a 1st academically. But because I chose to produce the practical side of my project in a theme he didn't like he marked me down. And also because I didn't present the work how he wanted he marked me down.

Don't assume just because you graduated with higher than a 2:2 makes you better than someone who did graduate with that grade.

by Shanice on 02 November 2012 16:29

Oh and FYI, I now have a job and there are people on my course who graduated with a higher grade than me still unemployed.

by Rory on 03 November 2012 11:07

Hi, I am just posting a comment to say how this forum seems to correlate employment with university. Academic courses are only there to expand your knowledge of a certain subject through a rigorous learning process. It means that you become an expert in your chosen subject, but it does not mean the that would mean anything to employers. Surely the main reason to go to university is to enhance your knowledge of a subject you are passionate about, meet like-minded people and discover yourself. If people want jobs, it would be better if they go and do apprenticeships. Many people without degrees have jobs as well, and it is hardly a prerequisite for employment. I have a 2:1, but i have never even looked at graduate schemes because I am not sure what makes those schemes better. There are plenty of other comparably paid jobs. It is not the end of the world if you don't get a job on a graduate scheme. There are other opprotunities in those companies and if you find a different job with the same company, it may put you in prime position for their graduate roles. Also, I would like to say that it is not the people with 1:1's or 2:1's that sound arrogant. They are not saying they are morally superior or better than people who have 2:2's. They appear to be saying that the classification system of degrees shows that they had more ability and worked harder. This is hard to argue with. They were clearly better students so employers will naturally give them more consideration. Some people have argued that their 2:2's will lead them to more interesting life experiences that people with 1:1's or 2:1's will lack. Not true, most of the people I know who got firsts had plenty of life experiences. They did internships, travelled abroad, volunteered, played in rock bands, and even started their own companies. Why would a first class student not have all the great 'life experiences' that a 2:2 student would have? They can both have a higher classification for thei degree and all the extra things the 2:2's have. Now, this may sound prejudiced but I include myself in this as well. When I did my BA there were several students who just did a degree for the lifestyle and it got them out of work for a few more years. They drank and they partied. They were lovely people but they were never going to get a good grade. Some were simply not smart enough. I was lazy but I had it where it counted and I always tried to deliver work that addressed all the key things the tutors were looking for. There needs to be critical engagement and the tutor needs to see you know what you are talking about. Even assignments I wrote on the last minute were of this standard. I was not aiming for a first because I knew it was unrealistic given that I was never going to make that much effort. I got what I deserved, and I was happy with it because it was fair. When I did my MA, I too had lots of problems but the reason I got a pass instead of a merit is because I was not really suited to doing that degree. Now instead of making excuses, people should accept their flaws. That actually makes you stronger. You then need to look at all the jobs and opportunities available to you, pick the best ones and get applying. Before you know it, you will have a fulfilling job that you want. Once you get a job no one cares what degree you hold, and as long as you enjoyed your experience at university, that should be all that matters. If your education has made you smarter, and has made3 you the person you are, then you certianly did not fail. People need to remeber the purpose of academic study is not to get jobs and I am not sure why this is always spouted by students. If you did your degree for a job, you wasted your time because I have done several jobs that paid well and did not require a degree. Just stay positive.

by Michael on 06 November 2012 23:49

I'm disappointed at some of the comments on this forum. Firstly, I graduated in 2009 with a 2:2 but through hard work and perseverance, I landed myself a graduate scheme with a Times Top 100 company in 2010. I am now a Project Manager. Although, I am conscious that many of the companies who previously had a minimum requirement of 2:2, have now upped their minimum requirements (2:1) due to the increase in the number of applicants.

I partially agree with Gareth's comments that scientific and engineering degrees are more difficult than the norm. However, I believe this forum is here for constructive purposes, thus comments like "you're a waster" if you got a 2:2, prove only counter productive!

Nevertheless, I am personally looking through this forum just to gauge how other graduates who obtained a 2:2 have endured. It's certainly not getting easier for those of use who do not achieve a 1:1 or 2:1. Despite that I strongly believe if you work hard, don't just focus on graduate schemes and send your CV to agencies and gain work experience. You can still have a successful career, just remain positive.

by James on 07 November 2012 13:43

Hi,

It seems to me that most graduate schemes these days rely more heavily on your A-level results as opposed to your degree. As somebody with poor A levels (BDE- 270 UCAS) it seems I am at a severe disadvantage in applying for jobs after I graduate. I am on track to reach a 1:1 based on my performance in my 2nd year, and a 2:1 at minimum. However, most graduate schemes (which require a 2:2 minimum by the way) still require 300 UCAS points. How can these schemes be making the most of all the potential candidates out there when they narrow the field like this? I think if you have great A levels and a drinker's degree (2:2), you are at a bigger advantage than those who messed up their A-levels and decided to make a change and focus and get the top degree possible. It seems absurd to me to suggest that the most recent qualification is not the most important when applying for these jobs. As a mature student, I sat my A-levels 7 years ago, and yet companies are still relying on them as a mark of my academic/professional ability. Would be interesting to hear of any similar stories. I'm sure there are many mature students out there who have poor A levels and a great degree, or those who did a foundation course and didn't follow the traditional routes to university who are left out like myself.

My point is, don't feel hard done by with your 2:2 degree. That is of your own doing. If you have good A-levels, your poor degree should not hold you back from many graduate schemes, which is absurd by my calculations, as you have taken a step backwards from your good A-levels and pissed away your degree. Yet somebody who has tried really hard to redeem themselves and prove their capabilities at university are left with nowhere to turn, except maybe becoming a manager at McDonald's.

by orbital on 08 November 2012 11:44

reading through this on my lunch break, was good read and thought id share my route.

left uni after 5 years with a H.E award on a B.A course even after completing it all which always rises question from employers in a good way for me. My response being i represented my uni in sports and got hurt bad, the story continues to say i spent 4 years in and out of hospital and only sitting 80% of classes. After telling my story of why i got what i did, I've had employers relate to my story as well as showing them i hit the barrel but survived and got my self out of it.

maybe you didn't achieve the grand spanking First others may have got due to not having to work/ giving up their time/ or pursuing a life goal (i'm sure an employer wouldn't mind you got a lower grade because you managed to scale 2 of the biggest mountains in EU etc etc.

also any grads, please give a thought to the armed services. i'm going in for my officers training part time as im too old to go full time. with the new structure of part time forces they are looking for grads to lead guys and girls as young as 17. also its another cracking subject in an interview telling them that you've been training non stop to be a thinking/battle machine or that you have the leadership skills to manage youngsters under any conditions. and trust me, getting in is a hell of a lot harder then finding a job in your field but is a great life experience.

also sadly it seems to be, 'its not what you know but who you know' in this current climate. currently working in an oil company due to word of mouth via my old man and seems a lot of the younger work force are the same. seen a lad of 19 having the company pay for his course part time and still landing £20k plus.

good luck to all those that have gotten under a First or didn't even finish uni. life isn't fair and perfect so your going to have to roll with it and make blend with the lifestyle you wish to live

by Alex on 09 November 2012 17:17

I have read a fair few of the things written here and it's interesting. I personally just think there is too much focus on trying to somehow break into graduate roles and schemes like it's the only option and if you can't then you're a failure. Which is utter rubbish. There is too much speak on here (and in general in my opinion) on pigeon holing people according to their degree 'quality'. Personally I think the whole notion of judging someone by how hard they can work in an academic arena, sucking up to their lecturers or tutors, and being a try-hard is not only no way to live a life but also reducing someone to being worthy or unworthy based on a number on a piece of paper and judging that someone with a '1:1' or whatever is better than a 2:1 is just b******. The idea that talent or ability or potential can be reduced to how hard one works at university is so limiting for everybody and I believe long term this limited thinking will change. Human potential and capacity is so wide ranging and unfathomably complex that the idea of a 2:1 or a 2:2 being the only method used to differentiate between two candidates, to me, is mind bogglingly short sighted and idiotic fundamentally.
Don't worry I do understand they have these systems in place so as to limit the amount of applications they receive to a manageable level but I just don't think human beings are so easily 'rated' or pigeon holed! There has got to be a better system. In Switzerland they only go to uni if they have a vocational career like doctor or lawyer - otherwise they do 3 year apprenticeships. That's one example of progressive thinking I mean. Judging in such a black and white way dehumanises people and essentially consigns a person with a 2:2 (shock horror he or she could be so demonstrably lax and incompetent!) to the career scrapheap! First of all it shouldn't do that because that person may well be significantly more employable than 10 graduates with a first because they have a whole host of experiences that make them far more employable than those ten try hard/nerds. And no that's not to say that 'try-hards' or 'nerds' don't have their value because they do. But it is unbelievably limiting to assume that someone's academic results are an indicator of future achievements or potential. Has anyone considered that many students will just be good students and not good workers?! Or that they will be burnt out by 22 and be useless in a work arena? Or that someone who has got a bit of life experience and 'lesser' degree has other skills that are incredibly useful?
Personally I have been very well educated and I got a 2:1 (or I say I do as it's from Australia and when I tried working it out it was a 2:1 - though their classification system is hard to translate accurately to ours). I have lived in four other countries other than England, I've travelled, I've met interesting people, I've thought about the important things in life because as I finished school I realised it's just a convayabelt of 'head down, study hard, be obedient, fall into line' and that just wasn't me and that isn't life to me. So I guess I want to say to any young graduates or school leavers enjoy your life! You only get one life and you only get one youth. I never wanted to waste it jumping through hoop after hoop. I don't regret doing the things I've done and not bothering with working bloody hard at uni (at uni I was there to get a degree and have a bloody good time - and I did!). Travel, explore, work abroad, live life and don't worry about keeping up with joneses or getting that job that all your mates are going for. By living how I have it's been tough at times but it's been so much a richer life and I haven't got tied up in the rat race (yet I will add!). But I feel ok with the idea of it now having broken free from the chains of constant 'achievement' and 'measuring sticks'. Humans are such incredibly complex creatures that you just can't reduce them to a simple academic classification. Student A who gets all A's at A Levels and a first degree may have the personality of a barn door and therefore no people skills or hobbies outside of work. Student B got A, A, B at A Level and a 2:1 but has people skills and interests outside work. Student C got B, B, B and a 2:2 but is extremely good with people, very practically minded and has great capacity for leadership or management. I would sooner employ student B or C any day. I wouldn't change any of what I've done for the world and I feel so grateful that I haven't done what every Tom, Dick and Harry did after school and be a good boy and get a first because as we know now in the current climate even a first degree won't guarantee anything! So knowing that, my philosophy was that I could try adhering to a bunch of corporate types needs and jump through hoops more, or I could open up my world and see it as a free spirit and not be tied down by quite frankly a whole heap of bull****. Now I am trying to find work after all the living abroad and experimenting I've done and it's not a walk in the park of course. But my mind is so pen to all the different options I have I'm in a better position to find something. I have great faith that I will find work that will satisfy me. And one thing that stepping off the convayabelt gives you and trekking the road less travelled is that you meet so many interesting people that give you ideas and contacts for jobs. Almost all of the jobs I've got or gone for or had good chances for have been through knowing somebody. And finally I've decided long term (and I know I would NEVER have thought like this if I didn't step off the convayabelt) that I want to run my own businesses in the future. I feel a burning desire inside to do it because it's something I'm passionate about - that's the most important thing to find.
I guess my points here can be summed up by Steve Jobs when he said: "I think you should go get a job as a busboy or something until you find something you’re really passionate about,” and
“When you grow up you tend to get told the world is the way it is and you’re life is just to live your life inside the world. Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice family, have fun, save a little money. That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact: Everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you and you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use.Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again.” So whilst it can be very good to get onto 'the right job' and pursue the graduate scheme you're supposed to be chasing because mum, dad, teacher, grandad, uncle Jim or your classmate Harry thinks you should go for; sometimes stopping and thinking a little bit, not being in such an anxious hurry and taking your time to find what you really want to do because it really is not the end of the world to not get the job you thought you should - sometimes it's the very making of a new and exciting world.
So stay strong, think for yourself and don't assume that because everyone is jumping off the cliff it must be what you do too.

by Bubble on 11 November 2012 23:26

I got a 2.1 and I was completely gutted about it as I was just shy of a 1.1. I did an excellent dissertation and got a high first for it but it wasn’t enough to bring up some of my other results. I have to admit it is annoying to be in the same degree classification as some people on my course who never turned up to uni and just scraped a 2.1. Equally there were also people on my course who I was disappointed for as they worked hard and deserved to get a 2.1 but still got just below. Uni is a different experience for everyone while some people discover their academic abilities other very intelligent people fall through the cracks due to low attendance, poor study skills or perhaps just because they have to work part time. I love Craig’s point (11 July 2012 14:38) about degree classifications not being a measure of intellectual ability, a refreshing one, thanks. Although I’m sure most employers would find a place for someone like Craig with such outstanding A level results. As mentioned by James (7 November 2012 13:43) A level results do seem to be more important to employers who run graduate schemes at the moment. I agree that if you have good A levels and a 2.2 you don’t have too much to worry about when it comes to graduate schemes. Many automatically reject applications from those with less than 300 UCAS points, regardless of degree classification. I am in the annoying position of having over 300 points and a 2.1 but being rejected because I did an AVCE and a BTEC diploma rather than A levels. I have still found plenty to apply for but I do find it odd that employers are so stuck on A levels when we have all clearly changed a lot since college/school. I don’t see why they matter more than a good undergraduate or postgraduate degree result. It does all depend on what you want to do though, graduate schemes pay well but they are also a little restrictive and perhaps not for everyone. I have friends who have managed to get jobs with 2.2 grades, they may not have started out in their dream positions but at least they have experience and can move on to better jobs and probably in the same time it takes to get through a graduate scheme. I also agree as someone stated earlier that many employers don’t care what classification your degree is, so it is not the end of the world and you shouldn’t feel left out of the game. Good luck everybody!!!

by Studex2 on 12 November 2012 09:27

I've seen a few posts on here and felt I had to voice my views on this one. Firstly, how anyone can try to say a 2:2 is the same as a 1st is completely beyond me. I gradutaed with a 1st and a degree with distinction at the end of my third year. This was through nothing more than had work and determination to do my best. I still went out and got off my face and spent most of my loan on doing so - I also worked 5 days a week on top of my studies.

I cannot accept anyone trying to claim that their 2:2 should be considered on a level par. I do accept however that this doesn't make me 'better' as an individual and what you learn at uni is invariably very different to your experience in the industry. As an employer I'm looking for the best although alot has to do with the person themselves, a 2:2 for me is not good enough.

Given the current employment market I'm afraid that employers are in the rarified atmosphere of being able to be very selective about who they chose to interview. This is something you have to accept or take into account when achieving lower than expected grades. Look into postgraduate studies (maybe put more effort into it or chose a related subject which you are actually interested in and more enthused about). This will vastly improve your employability and show that while you may have achieved lower than average grades - you have a determination and willingness to improve and learn from mistakes.

I secured empoloyment through a summer internship and my experience has built up from there. This is the best way in my view to get employed.

I make no apology for my views - I worked extremely hard to get to where I am and cannot stand the mentality that some people have that they are (or should be) entitled to something they don't deserve. I think this is intrinsicly linked with the way schools now promote the importance of participation rather than actual accomplishment.

You are in the big bad world now, deal with it and adapt accordingly.

by Lauren on 13 November 2012 08:59

I have to agree with all of you - I have graduated with a BA Social Sciences degree - unclassified - and I am an employment advisor earning £26,000 a year with a view to it going to 30 next year. I worked in a call centre my whole uni career and also had extrememly hard issues to deal with. I was offered 5 jobs and this was based on my interview and life skills rather than my university degree. So actually, if you interview well and can defend your case - a degree does not show the mentality of a man - hard work, determination and life skills are more appealing to an employer rather than what degree you had studying four years in uni when lets face it - student life wasnt real life either ! Stop moaning accept what you got - at least we got it ! Some students because of the economy wont even get to where we are now and will have to give up a lot !

by Ashley on 13 November 2012 13:07

Few Home Truths.

1.The UK is a meritocracy, therefore more often than not to be recognized you have to be the best qualified. (Sad but true)

2.Not alll Grad schemes ask for a 2.1 or above, many retail management posistions accept 2.2 and some are happy with just someone with a degree. Clearly these posts are more interested in experience then qualifications. ( e.g Why apply for an Editors Scheme at the Telegraph with a 2.2 in Literature it doesn't make sense and we all know that)

3. Having a 1.1 doesn't make you better then a 2.2 student. Equally don't assume because I have a 1.1 i have never had a life.

4. Why apply for a "graduate role" then complain when the first thing your compared against with is what you graduated with. The reason there called that is often many of the competencies required for the role are those which are learnt at university.

by Chris on 13 November 2012 20:14

I like the tone of this forum, it's largely a positive one, which is great and very rare as far as forums go! Like some others, I graduated this Summer from a very prestigious University, taking a first and a BSc, but I had trouble finding work too.

I know for a fact that there were jobs out there, in the science sector this is to be expected! I applied to a dozen or so different PhDs and jobs, but I'm not ashamed to say that I only went for those that immediately captured my interest or were the most desirable. There were certainly hundreds that I scrolled past just because they had the words "Lab Technician" in the title, and therefore sounded BORING... I'm just wondering if the same unrealistic expectations are playing a large role for lots of other people here? Is it reasonable to be expecting large companies to be snapping up Undergrads who have, at best, an awesome BA/BSc degree and a successful project to their name?

The bottom line is that though I managed to get accepted to a couple of Masters' at the last minute, I think I would honestly rather be working, even if it was starting at a slightly lower level than I'd hoped.

(PS: At the risk of lowering the tone, I also think that those people who deny that one's degree is a measure of their ABILITY (Skills/Intelligence/Diligence/Experience) are perhaps a bit delusional... It's designed to measure precisely those things, isn't it?!)

by Hmnya on 15 November 2012 08:35

To be fair with that level of writing ability, how did you even manage a 2:2?

by Mark on 16 November 2012 08:46

Hi All,

Thought i would share my experience with the view to providing hope to fellow graduates with a 2:2 degree.

I graduated 2 years ago (2010) with a 2:2 degree in Network Computing and am now employed full time in a job that pays well. The key to this was "if at first you don't succeed, try again, and again, and again".

initially on graduation I tried applying for grad schemes but kept falling at the first hurdle. I even had someone recruiting on behalf of Cisco approach me. After an intial test (that i aced) they said that because I had a 2:2 I wouldnt be able to apply. Gutting because Cisco are a massive company but a small ray of hope that someone had seen my CV and thought "he looks good" which was confirmed by the test.

Anyway, after numerous other job applications I decided i needed to lower my horizons and eventually got employed as an IT tech at a local school. Salary was poor but it was experience. After 3 months i changed jobs to a well paid service desk role and now I am working 3rd line support.

How i see it, there are more grads applying for grad schemes and filtering by acamedic acheivement is the logical way to filter down candiates. It is ashame but face facts, why did you get a 2:2? and not a 2:1 or a first? I see 3 main reasons for this: 1. Lack of intellect. 2. Lack of dedication 3. something beyond your control (but extenuating circumstances should cover you).

When it came to me, lack of dedication was my problem at university. socialising and enjoying myself came before my work. I would class myself as a clever person so it definately wasn't intelligence. In contrast, my house mate worked his ass off in final year and got a first class honours and numerous other awards such as highest score on his degree etc. So it is not just intelligence that a higher grade reflects, but also dedication. 2 things employers look for.

My advice to you would be to do the same. Lower your expectations to gain some work experience. The woirst thing employers can see on your CV is a gap in your career. Several people told me "its easier to get a job once you have a job". Advice that, at first sounded odd, but turned out to be true. Also make sure you are furthering your education by studying for qualifications relevant to the sector you want to work in (Microsoft and Cisco for me). Industry certs can be as valuable, if not more valuable, than your degree. If you want something bad enough, you will get it so to all of you with "lower grade" degrees, Soldier on!

by Alex on 16 November 2012 11:48

wow, ive been looking at this for a while and the smug superiority of some some firsts is unbelievable. at the moment i am struggling to remember a time, in the last 4 years, where i got anything lower than a B in any of my courseworks, reports, presentations or Lab work. Get me in an exam hall, i fall apart and im lucky i can get a C. i have no idea why,i just crumble! info is lost from my head. This isnt all the time. i got a B on my Neurology, and Pharmacology exams, but it wasnt enough to save the rest of my awful exam marks. My point is, i think its an outdated concept now to think that a 2 hour exam, should be worth 75%, whereas, a 2-3 week report filled to the brim with articulation and research is only worth 25% in some modules. i personally think that the reports served me much better than the exams. Anyway, i digress. My university had a system where if you got in the top 3% of your classification, as long as your EXAM average was over that mark, you would be bumped into the next classification. For example, if i finished with 58%, if most of my exams were over 58% i could have my 2.2 bumped up to a 2.1. Of course, this didnt happen. my exams werent that good. infact, they were awful! But why does that hinge on the last two hours of the module? what about the acheivements i have made in the rest of the year? my point is, so much emphasis is placed on ones ability to regurgatate information, rather than find it, relate to it, and use it. Now i dont believe i deserve tha name that has been branded upon receivers of 2.2's. i worked hard, and didnt play atall, yet, my own personal issues with exams got in the way. So, to sum up, all you people who received firsts, congratulations, truly, its a great acheivement, but dont presume to think that you are better than us. you may beat me hands down in an exam, but when it comes to the industry, i would wipe the floor with you in terms of my ability to do the things that matter. with attitudes like i have seen in here, you may aswell take a degree in the social graces if youre that academic. would probably hold you in better stead in life...

by Adam on 16 November 2012 15:46

To correct the notion that a degree measures your intelligence and ability need to learn to be a little clearer.

The degree aims to measure your understanding of the core topics needed in preparation for a job in the relevant sector. It does not reflect your overall intelligence and abilities! and I can state this with experience. I work in engineering and did an apprenticeship many years ago and since become I'm senior production manager. I have two friends who did degrees at a very respectful university and they are nowhere in life one own's a small bar and that is it.

Some time academics are just that and have no practical skills to put what they have learnt into use or add anything new to a company. We employed a student with a 1st and he had no communication skills and could not work within a team.

We took on a student with a 2:2 and yes we were unsure but they have great team player skills in production and communicate we will staff and importantly our clients. I guess they did feel like an underachiever at first, but because of that they are prepared to work harder to retain the opportunity they have gained, and we still employ that person today full time.

Academics and employees do not go hand in hand, there is so much more required by us as employers than just a degree especially in this economic climate. Most degrees do not cover everything we need despite our input to local universities.

We do look at jobs site to compare positions and rates, and I must say I find employers who accept students with any degree at 2:1 or above as a farce, what is the point in employing an unknown when there are people who already have the knowledge and experience out there queuing up.

by Chris on 18 November 2012 11:33

Adam, I agree entirely with what you're saying about the importance of practical skills in a business environment, alongside academic skills. And also that any company that offers a role to a graduate because they received a 2:1, regardless of the discipline it was in, might be relying too heavily on the breadth of the degree's challenges.

I still think, however, that a degree is a measure of one's ability. I believe (though many would disagree, I know) that almost anyone can be at university, studying their worst subject and, with the right self-direction and commitment, achieve a decent degree. (I'm doing my masters in Biomed. Engineering at the moment, in part, because I've always been weakest at maths and I want to prove I can do it.)

In the same way that practical skills are an invaluable asset in life, academia is excellent for getting a more rounded view of the way our thinking works. I suppose I see it as; practicality is knowing that something will work, academia is trying to know every way in which something doesn't work. They might both be important sides of the same coin.

by Ka on 19 November 2012 12:38

You are very ignorant for your response and its people like you who I wouldn't hire if I were recruiting. Just because you got a 1.1 does NOT make you any better than a person who got a 2.2. you cannot sit there and claim to have worked harder just because you managed to obtain this grade. I know many people who messed around at uni and came out with a 2.1 or above, and others who worked their butts off at uni only to receive a 2.2. People are different!!! A 2.2 doesn't demonstrate that you are incompetent at all. Infact grades do not define a person. From what I have seen you seem arrogant and stuck up and you lack intelligence. Yes you may possess theoretical knowledge but that does NOT mean that you will be right for any role. You need to demonstrate PRACTICAL skills in a working environment. So your 1.1 wont make a difference to be perfectly honest. For example if you are a lawyer working face to face with clients, what use would your 1.1 be if you have poor communication and charismatic skills ?? or better yet going around carrying a "I am better than you attitude" WHO WOULD WANT TO HIRE YOU ???? certainly not me. Watch what you say sir because you are NOT better than anyone. Grades mean NOTHING nowadays. its not about what you know, its about WHO you know. #THEEND

by beebo on 20 November 2012 13:25

I graduated in 2010 with 2:2 from quite a prestigious university, i have yet to find serious employment! i missed 2:1 by a few marks and was very upset so decided on taking a gap year, i came back and did some work experience and then left that after a couple of months and decided to start my own little outlet buying and selling accesories and whatnot.
I desperately wanted a graduate training contract and qualify with an aca or acca but have not yet had ANY luck what so ever. in fact. i even started the acca independently hoping that, that shows initiative and demonstrates that i actually know what i want to do...
its now 2 and half years since i've graduated and i can't help but feel hopeless because all my friends and peers have moved on to their chosen careers and my life is at a stand-still.
it's even put me off my chosen career and now i just want to go back to university and change my course altogether but this shows lack of commitment...
i don't know if i'm as passionate as i used to be, definitely depression has hit me now and feeling like a loser even though i went to one of the best unis in uk.
it saddens me that just because of my 2:2 i can't even get my foot in the door.
networking is out of the question as well the only friend who is studying for the aca qualification is quite a jealous character and wouldn't go out of her way to help me in case i surpass her.
i want to do physiotherapy now - drastic change i know but i don't even have a biology a-level and it will take me even longer to do that and now it seems like there's no demand for physiotherapists so i'm just stuck.

by ibk on 22 November 2012 13:50

Okay.

I read the whole forum from beginning to end, in order to know the direction in which it was heading, the opinions and to be able to use it to build my reply post.

Firstly, grades do not determine your worth or intelligence or work ethics. Yes, It is understandable that grades should correlate to the aforementioned qualities but in this day and age, it doesn't. Someone who got a First (or a Second Class upper) might actually be worse off than the person who got a Second-Class lower (or even a third class) and vice versa. So to read how someone of the people posting here about how they should be 'obviously' picked over everyone else with a lower grade is actually not nice...and to be honest, it comes across as egotistical and rude (which should be addressed under the banner of humility but that is not the purpose of this post). Yes you are entitled to a job because of your grade. But if that is all you're counting on getting you into the work-place then no, it doesn't work like that anymore.

Secondly, those who got a Second-Class lower need to understand that what we got (yes we, I also got a 2.2) is a summary of how we performed during the course of the university career. It doesn't mean we're not smart or intelligent or otherwise...but truthfully it might mean we didn't work harder enough...or better yet, harder than how we did. I am saying this because I know how I hard I worked for my grades. I know, all my peers know, all my lecturers know...however at the end of the day, my grades said otherwise. Was I distraught? Yes. I was practically broken because I felt like I did my utmost best and pulled my best tricks but life had its way and I got that grade. Does life end there? No. The only next possible thing is to apply and apply and apply. Something will come up. Might not be what we want but it will come up.

I guess what I am driving at in the end is the amount of experience needed to be able to actually secure a job. It is not fair that the company would expect the graduates to already have so much experience of doing this and doing that when all we're actually trying to do is get a good degree to be able to find work. And do not be deceived. Working and Studying simultaneously is hard. And for those who were able to do this and come out with a good degree, you have my respect but you have to understand that you are the exceptions. The majority will not succeed like that.

All in all, I believe we'll eventually all get what we want as long as we keep working hard for what we want.

Peace.

by ama on 22 November 2012 14:03

getting a good grade does help but its not the end of the world. I got a bachelors in mechanical engineering with a 2.2 with no relevent work experience. The requirements for the job was a 2.2 and At the assesment centre i was against graduates with a masters with a better bachelors grade, from much better engineering universities plus with work experience. At first i didnt realise how i managed it but as i started working i realised why, Personality matters far more than academic grade but saying that if you did recieve a 2.2, make ur application stand out,make ur answers unique. and come interview day sell yourself, your personality, not your degree. I work for a large worldwide known engineering company and i know people with 2.1's and better still struggling to get a job.

by ama on 22 November 2012 14:06

oh and just cos u got a 1st doesnt make u better than somone who got a 2.2. my degree was difficult. Somone degrees out there a a joke tbh with people only coming in twice a week and graduating with a 1st.

by Chris on 22 November 2012 21:23

Umm, in answer to your slightly personally-directed comments, Ka... I call it can-do attitude, practice makes perfect after all. Sometimes optimism comes across as arrogance in writing, especially when I don't have shoulders to shrug and eyebrows to arch. I also work at a hardware store during the holidays and at weekends, vis a vis the practicality/person skills thing.

I don't know how your comment added to mine, really, or how "People are different!" is going to be a practical solution for those who actually look at this forum? People CAN do whatever they bend their minds to; it's the truth!!! Most of the time, I think it will take more than the three years you're given to do a degree, in order to attain your goals - so don't be disheartened by a single disappointing result. Instead, maybe try getting into the industry you're trying to break into, at some level or another, if that's your dream area. As Ka says, it's largely WHO you know, as much as WHAT you know - and I certainly don't know anyone!

by Naomi on 25 November 2012 20:30

The employer uses what they see on paper, and the time they spend on a day at interview to assess you. If you're an employer with 300 people applying for a post you are likely to use grades as an easy way to 'cut' a certain amount of people. This is not to say its fair or that anyone is better than anyone else, just that an employer has a snapshot judgement of your work for 3/4 years and a higher grade will be favourable as this depicts, you may have natural ability. Any smart employer worth working for should recognise degree classification has nothing to do with how you will work in a work situation, just that you have potential. The fact you have reached degree level means you have a certain degree of ability so what you do academically and (equally importantly) extra-curricular, will show you might have a little bit more potential than someone who has no work experience/extra curricular interests/and received a lower classification. I'm a genuine believer of showing you have something unique to offer. Undergrads have at least two whole summers to get some good work experience, whether volunteering or otherwise and to say you can't find any relevant work experience is irrelevant, having something is better than nothing, and a employer worth working for would favour a well balanced 2.2 grad with lots of experience and personality, than a 1st grad who has never bothered to work, visa versa with a 1st grad with experience and a 2.2 with nothing else to offer. Make yourself stand out and keep trying and you'll get there, if you expect something to be handed to you on a plate you will be disappointed.

by Rob on 29 November 2012 23:00

It's unfair for employers to put all degrees on a level playing field. I got a 2:2 in Architecture, which is definitely one of the most difficult degrees out there and should be recognised as such.

by ilio on 03 December 2012 22:09

Personally I don't think a 1st or a 2:2 makes you a better or worse person.
I see people saying that they think graduates with a 1st just can't social and try too hard.
I didn't graduate with a 1st, and I always thought about the same as you guys that people with a 1st are just nerds, but after getting to know them better, they are not.
I know quite a lot of graduates with a 1st, they work hard, I borrow their notes for the lectures I have missed, and I am literally surprised by the amount of effort they put into their studies.
A well laid out lecture note alongside with their own notes written.
They volunteer during the weekend, they are the head or whatever in their societies, they did internships and play numerous number of instruments or speak so many languages.

These are all their assets, no just the 1st or the 2:2 you have got that differentiates you and them, but the effort and concentration they put into their work and personal life.

I remember in our final year at university, one girl from my course was looking for graduate job desperately, her average mark for all her module were above 90%! However, she said to me that she found that by the end of the day, it's not the grade that the employers are after, but more about your soft skills, your interpersonal skills, team leading skills and all these other skills.

So I think, by the end of the day, it's not the 1st or 2:2 that makes you a better person or gets you the job. But more about who you are, what you have gained and learnt socially from university and work experience.

For those people with a 2:2 and still looking for work, I know there are quite a few retail firms like ASDA and so on, who only require a 2:2 for their graduate scheme. Civil service as well I think.

Just don't give up hope ; )
All the best for everyone looking for work

by A.J. on 04 December 2012 02:57

A graduate is a graduate, because they completed the course. Employers thinking one with a 1st or 2:1 is going to bring more to the table are just delusional. If Employers are smart, they should have a mix of all graduates on the field. Because is obvious 1st or 2:1 are not the best at all the units they studied at University.

by matthew s on 04 December 2012 11:06

well i think u have just proved how narrow minded and arrogent employers are i am a recent graduate with a 2:2 not because i am not intelligent or hard working because while i was working for my degree i was working for a living aswell as i am not as priviliaged as others, meaning less time to research, write papars, and meaning the occasional lecture had to be missed to be able to pay rent and feed myself i finnished 1.2 percent from a 2:1, i have been offered a bank job with my degree although i had to turn it down as it was only 12 hours a week work which would not suit my situation, ive also noticed the amount of jobs up north and in other areas of england compared to the south is very low, meaning that the competition is rediculouse no matter what degree u have, and with people like you so arrogant in picking the candidates what hope do we have , i wish i never bothered to get a degree

by ZH on 05 December 2012 17:50

I've got a first class Mathematics undergraduate degree from Cambridge, as well as a Masters, Ph.D., four years of university lecturing experience and five published original research papers, and STILL I can't get a job.

For example, the Government Statistical Service and Government OR Service turned me down (even without an interview) - even though they must have at least 50 vacancies each year, 2:1 is the minimum requirement, and statistical analysis and OR are extremely close to purely academic work. My qualifications prove beyond doubt that I can do this kind of work and do it very well, but they didn't even invite me to an interview.

Most employers do not even bother to acknowledge my application, let alone invite me to interview and reject me properly; even, in many cases, for job adverts that specifically say "NO EXPERIENCE REQUIRED - full training given".

I went to one interview [for a highly mathematical job] where I answered all their questions [which were all entirely mathematical - no strange or subjective questions to trip me up or cause any difficulty for me], and even told the interviewers [politely] about some extra mathematical tricks that they hadn't seen before, and they still turned me down.

So, it seems to me that many employers do not care at all about degrees; that many employers either lie about what they want on the job adverts, or simply don't know; and that you need to be a personal friend of the interviewers and/or already have years of experience working in the exact same job, to have any realistic chance.

by Derek Chambers on 06 December 2012 17:59

It is quite strange to read that people automatically equate degree classification with intelligence (and work ethic). Having said that, I do not think that it is unreasonable to assume that on average more intelligent people are likely to perform better at University. To those who have likened academic ability with being a better (or not) human being, I'd stray away from this, particularly if you are unemployed at the moment. Self-worth and success is not and should not be determined by your job and wealth.

If you have a 2:2, I do not for one moment think that you are less intelligent or less committed. This is reductionist; people may have simply chosen the wrong course and not find the subject matter interesting. This is not uncommon with the pressure on young people to go to University. Not everybody has the same opportunity, those from a wealthy background or a more stable family environment are likely to have an advantage at least to some extent (and so on).

In general terms, it is undoubtedly a difficult climate in which to find work and there is certainly a degree of fortune involved for those who are successful. It is also not someone's fault that they are unemployed as someone has suggested, this smacks a little bit like the 'deserving poor'.

However, you are not doing yourself any favours by believing that University entitles you to a 'graduate' job. How could it? Virtually half of A Level students are progressing onto University. It does not in itself differentiate you from the competition, and there is an argument that those who have taken an alternative route away from University have shown courage and developed equally valuable skills in those 3-4 years. To an extent then, you are competing against other people who went to University... the Grading structure of course is relevant as it distinguishes performance. As has rightly been said, there are few indicators with which you can judge a new-entrant into the labour market, academic performance is an obvious starting point.

I get a sense from many who have posted that they have restricted their job searches to Graduate jobs. Yes, many graduate jobs require a 2:1 or above and unfortunately that will limit the options if you hold a 2:2. However, there is more to life than working for a bank or a consultancy firm (without meaning to disparage those who do work for those firms).

Applying blindly to hundreds of graduate schemes is not likely to get you far. It does not demonstrate that you have much career motivation or direction (easier said than done). You need to try and work out exactly what it is you want to do, and not what you feel you are expected to do. Then work out what skills they require and look critically at whether you possess those skills and whether you can demonstrate these above other people who went to University. If not, what can you do to get these? Remember there are plenty of people who have 2:1s and above who do not get graduate jobs... The people who do get these jobs will generally have thought about their career in some depth and acquired further ways of evidencing those than just their academic record.

For the record there are many prestigious graduate schemes that request at least a 2:2. The last time I checked many governmental schemes (Fast Stream, GCHQ, Dfid etc) were examples of these.

by Kayla on 06 December 2012 18:16

@ ilio, I think you are right about needing more than a degree in order to be successful. Most employers are looking for well-rounded candidates rather than someone whose only experience is academic work (regardless of their mark). For instance, when people answer competency questions in application forms and interviews, someone who gives examples from their studies alongside societies / sports / internships... is going to make a significantly better impression than a person who relates everything to their studies. So I think a lot of this argument about whether or not a 1:1 is better than a 2:2 is a bit pointless, really - most employers look beyond university marks, and I think the biggest factor that sets candidates apart is extracurricular activities and/or work experience, and the ability to present how those things helped the candidate develop. The reality, unlike some people have suggested, is that there are plenty of 1:1 graduates with that level of experience, and the skills to sell it; obviously, those people will be in the best position to get jobs. However, a lot of grad schemes (retail management, civil service etc.) accept people with 2:2s, and a lot of smaller companies have less stringent requirements as well - so I think we (I'm a final year undergrad, btw) need to focus less on how much we've achieved academically, and more on how much we've achieved in all areas of life.

by Hermos on 06 December 2012 22:09

@ Chris from Aldershot: I'm afraid that optimism and new age self-belief philosophies fall on deaf ears on the internet.

Truth be told, I just saw the fruit of all my efforts today (thanks to just believing in myself a little more) and trusting it'd all fall into place. Got a job. Eternally grateful for it, and not to God, or my degree, or my parents - but my own hard work. Determination. Willpower.

That's what you need to succeed. I know it's hard, but just keep going. It'll be worth it in the end.

by June on 13 December 2012 10:11

Hi

To be honest,you may have a 2.2 Degree, but I have seen a lot of mistakes in your written English. An employer of any reasonable standard would expect correct grammatical English in preference to any Degree,except if you were looking for positions with Maths and Science. May be that's why your job applications are ignored. If grammar is not your strong point maybe you could consider getting it checked by someone.

by Martha cross on 16 December 2012 21:22

hi I'm due to graduate in July 2013 currently on track for a 2:1.from a top redbrick university with a languages degree. I addition to this I've been an active member of not only several sports societies but several societies that demonstrate these "soft skills" teamwork, leadership etc... that many employers seem to be taking into account too. In addition to this I've got work experience abroad, but what I don't understand is despite all of this I've had many many rejections so far. Seeing as I have not yet made it to the interview stage to prove my worth it seems to me that neither grades or experience seem to be relevant... I'm at a loss as to what to do as I' m still studying and applying to on average a job a week. I've made full use of the uni careers and cv clinics (7 times) and I'm not really sure where I'm going wrong.

by Jen on 02 January 2013 21:05

Hi all....

Just wanted to add a few things. I have read through all of the posts on this forum and can understand everyone's frustration. I graduated with a first class honors degree. I gained my classification as a mature student with a job, a house to run and 2 children whose social lives would put yours to shame. I worked incredibly hard to achieve this grade and watched people on my course graduate after applying hardly any effort into their studies. My senior lecturer was always quick to stipulate that employers DO take into account your classification as it shows your overall competency in all your modules and the level of understanding in your degree subject. I categorically disagree with the posts that suggest that they are better people because they have a first however I would hope it would stand me in better stead, I saw plenty of students throw their grade away as they did not want to apply themselves to their studies, why should I be punished because of this ?. If the level of a degree was not important (as some of you naively suggest) then a pass or fail would suffice surely.

I wish EVERYONE the best of luck. The determination will pay off in the end.

by Simon on 03 January 2013 09:28

I completely echo Jen's point.
Obviously having a first will put you in a better position than someone who has a 2.2, otherwise there would be no point in going to Uni. If the grades meant nothing then we would all get third's and doss.
However, that isn't to say that someone with a first would make a better employee than someone with a 2.2.
Large organisations receive thousands of applications for every job, they need some quick and cheap way of narrowing those applications down to an amount that can attend an assessment centre. One of the most popular ways is to stipulate that anyone with a 2.2 and below will not be eligible to apply.
This is tough for us 2.2 holders to hear. HOWEVER I would urge all of you struggling to find employment to look at smaller organisations. In a small company the personality of someone is more important than their grade as they have to fit in to a small team and often work independently.
It's what I did and I am so glad of it!

Good Luck!

by nerdella on 03 February 2013 16:24

Hi

"Making youre application as near as perfect is vital. Employers get thousands of applications in these days of recession and bad spelling, grammar and appearance are the first things an employer looks at. Ive seen some of the CV's belonging to my fellow 3rd years' and im appalled at the bad spelling, lack of grammar and punctuation. And the subject matter for a degree matters."

Yes, I quite agree, but maybe you should have run spellcheck yourself. I note that a lot of you have made spelling/grammatical errors.

by Dave on 04 February 2013 13:07

I'm guessing because this was posted in the HR section the person cannot find a graduate scheme in human resources that are accepting applicants with a 2:2. I can understand people's frustration here because the graduate schemes for HR tend to accept graduates from any field of study. It can be quite frustrating to those who did much harder, analytical degrees because they're getting compared to those who may have completed a degree in social sciences. What I mean by this is that they're favouring someone who has 2:1 or first class in social sciences over someone who may have a 2:2 in physics. Not taking anything away from someone who has 1st or 2:1 in social sciences, yes you still had to work hard for it, but... you have to admit physics is and will always be a more respectable degree than social sciences. Therefore I feel some consideration of classifications need to be comprimised as some degrees are harder than others. Why do you think quite a few engineering companies take on graduates with 2:2 classification?

I've also heard statistically psychology and sociology are two of the most popular degrees out there, graduates more common in women, most of these graduates entering human resources (HR) or personal assistant (PA) roles.

by Adam on 06 February 2013 19:57

There are a lot of reasonable opinions here, all serving good points. I think it is important to recognise that people are different, and shine in different ways.

However, I agree with what Jerome is saying, at the end of the day the job market is saturated with competent and qualified people. Everyone are competing to get there foot in the doors of successful companies.

Its completely understandable, and logical why companies use the selection methods they use. They have no need to consider a 2.2 graduate over a 1.1/2.1. They simply dont have the time and resources to vigilantly check everyones CV/application when they have so many to weed through.

Simon is right, most graduates target the big fish straight out of uni, (I dread to think how many applications the larger corporations get each year). I think it would be wiser for us 2.2 underachievers to target smaller firms, and take the initiative of applying for jobs which are not necessarily advertised publicly.

by Simon on 09 February 2013 07:42

All you people with a 2.2 should not be feeling that left out of the game as I have got myself a 2.1 masters in Structural Engineering and I am finding it hard to even get past the application stage. Although I have only just completed the course, I have been applying to companies since September time and although I have had a few replies saying that the company is interested and that they will be in touch to organise an interview, they never do. I have emailed them and they just say that I have to wait. I am a mature graduate with a Mechanical Engineering background and have 15 years of work experience (Although not directly related to my academic studies) which I thought would be an advantage but it does not look that way.

I have started looking at improving my skills and knowledge base by learning how to operate pieces of software that regularly appear in the 'skills required' list of the job briefs in the hope that this will improve my chances. (Logical I think)

by Jay on 10 February 2013 22:28

That right there is where you lack experience, you assume you are more intelligent than someone with a lower grade, this is simply not true, an assignment does not measure intelligence only how well you can can follow instructions without deviating at all. And while you may well be very good in that one subject maybe you could only ever get a first in only that one single subject, what if the person with the lower grade in fact has way superior intelligence and has a 2:2 in 12 different subjects? That doesn't make them less intelligent, quite the opposite, it means they can diversify and adapt to their surrounding no matter what the subject material. Your arrogance is actually pathetic you believe you are superior, enjoy the fall when you realise you're not.

by Chris on 11 February 2013 20:39

Geeeez... Nowhere did I say that anyone was more "intelligent" than anybody else, or say that I could take any subject and get a first; I only ever pointed out that hard work is much more important than "intelligence". I certainly don't think I'm superior to anyone. I don't even know for sure what you mean by "superior".

I'll happily counter your slander, however, by saying that I find your absolutist generalisations about a someone you've never met, based on nothing more than a troll-ish, self-serving browse through old posts on a forum, indicative of a shallow, narcissistic and entirely uninteresting outlook. Good luck to yourself, good sir, you'll need it with a personality like that. If you're just trolling because you're having a bad day, however, then I'm very sorry about that. Hope tomorrow goes better.

by Kayla on 12 February 2013 15:32

@ Jay, I'm not sure if your example really works, seeing as the person with a First might be brilliant at one subject, but could also be capable of getting a 2.2 in 12 other subjects. In any case, I don't really understand why so many people on this thread conflate marks with intelligence and job market success, which are three different things IMHO.

For instance, I think I'm a fairly intelligent person and I'm doing fine in my social sciences course; however, I would probably struggle really hard in a course like medicine or engineering. While being intelligent is obviously helpful, I don't think intelligence translates neatly into course marks, because a lot of other factors influence marks - such as individual talents/aptitudes, level of interest in the subject matter, types of assessment, individual study habits, how the material is presented etc. So it's not as simple as saying a person with a 1.1 is automatically more intelligent than a person with a 2.2, but at the same time I don't think employers rank applicants based on intelligence. Employers look for a person with the best ability to convince them how s/he would fit into the company and benefit it. I'm convinced that a person with a 1.1 wouldn't automatically pass an interview based on their mark if they came in with no knowledge of the company or mumbled their way through some poorly structured answers. Someone with a worse mark might perform much better if they have done their research and have good interpersonal skills.

I understand that many 2.2 grads feel unfairly left out of the recruitment process because of their mark; however, at least in relation to the big grad employers, most applicants are in fact unfairly left out of the game based on completely arbitrary weeding-out criteria, be it course mark, UCAS points or their numeracy/logical/personality/etc. test performance. As a third-year undergrad with a pretty good predicted course mark, I still felt that many jobs that I would be able to do well at were off-limits to me after I failed some of the tests, which tend to have skewed benchmarks and little relevance to the actual job (eg. a numeracy test for a PR position). I think that the best we all, as graduates in this tough economy, can do is stop banging on the locked door, so to speak, and focus on finding other opportunities for ourselves. Personally, I have diversified my job search to include employers of all sizes and I've found that I'm having a lot more success focusing on companies whose recruitment policies aren't automatically set to fail 75% of applicants before the first interview - smaller or less famous companies that don't deal with thousands of applications per position.

by Steve Frost on 17 February 2013 12:42

Hi Everyone
I've been reading your comments and thoughts on this thread with great interest. Now I'm assuming that most of you went straight from school to a brick university, as opposed to the way I'm doing it. I'm a mature student (50 next year) studying part time for an honours degree in history with The Open University. Now what I'd be interested to know are your thoughts vis-a-vis mature students with 2-2 degrees (or predicted 2-2 degrees) and the graduate job market and entry into higher levels of academia. Bear in mind that we are usually working towards our degrees whilst holding down a part or full time job, running a home and that we have to on the whole run our own study schedule and if very lucky get a face to face tutorial with a tutor if we're lucky.

by Steve Frost on 18 February 2013 20:06

Sorry my earlier post should have read 'get a monthly face to face tutorial with a tutor etc...

by Jay on 19 February 2013 11:10

I am also a mature student, I left school with barely any decent GCSE's, I was brought up to believe my role was to get married and pop out children, which I very well, I had 4, 2 of whom have mental disabilities, just on their own they are very challenging, and yes Chris, I was having a really bloody bad day and to say the least I was pi$$ed off at some of the arrogant excuses for human beings on here, bragging about their 'firsts' pfft, I wish I had the time and space to study to get a first, if I lived on my own and had the required time I am positive I could come out with a first, as it is I am lucky if I can gain 12 hours a week to study and that time is in the wee hours of the morning most of the time. I do not have a social life and yes it gets to me, if I had went for a medical degree, classifications are never found out from what I gather you either pass or fail, I think after spending £8,500 that all degrees should be the same and then equality would be closer to being absolute, classification of degree just means you had more time to study than those with lower grades, I could be wrong, but that is my belief.

by davet on 24 February 2013 11:26

@cmcguire: I dont know where or what you graduated from but if you are going to insult someone make sure you can spell first. In fact make sure you string a sentence together.

"don't set your heights so high if you are incompetant"

Oh dear.

by dave on 24 February 2013 11:31

Wow Jerome- Your really sound as if you have made it totally by yourself. How did you manage to fund these 2 degrees? Not that many people get such a great first chance as you- let alone a second.

by Jerome on 24 February 2013 20:25

Hi Dave

The first degree was just the standard 3 year post A level degree that most people my age would have been doing. The masters degree I funded by taking out a career development loan. It was a big risk because admittedly it may not have helped me secure meaningful employment but it seems to have paid off.

Coming from such a humbling position (the desmond) makes you appreciate the opportunity to work for a company like Deloitte even more. So much so that I'm teaching myself French and looking to sit the CFA alongside the ACA, which I'm doing now (passed the first six exams. It's definitely motivating.

All I can say is stay motivated, don't lose hope and eventually you'll find a happy medium between your ambitions and what you can be expected to achieve.

by Matthew on 26 February 2013 10:09

Hi,

Remember this!! Bill Gates owner of Microsoft dropped out of Uni.

by Giles on 27 February 2013 15:46

Hi,

Graduate Opportunities are not meant to be open to anyone and everyone, these companies want the best graduating students, so they can fast track them into management positions. If you have been rejected, or in some way don't measure up, its nobody's fault but your own; the company offering the job need not lower their entry requirements to accommodate you.

by Steve on 28 February 2013 10:43

There seems to be quite a few academic snobs on here. Any employer worth bothering with will be looking for far more than just a degree classification. They will be looking for ability beyond the degree and above all life and work skills outside of academia, and also proof that you can stick to something. That is why Open University students (including mature ones like me) tend to be favoured slightly more in certain circumstances over our younger undergraduate friends who've attended brick uni's.
Advice I would give to all of us who will have worked hard to get our degrees (as I said in a previous post I'm on target next year at the age of 50 to get my first degree a 2-2 History (honours) degree)is don't let academic snobs or people who think they know what they're talking about put you off. Be proud of your 2-2.

by Ross on 01 March 2013 12:44

Hi Guys,

My name is Ross and I am the Marketing Executive for graduate-jobs.com. We are all delighted with how popular this post has become and we hope that it has been genuinely useful for all of you. In an effort to make your graduate job search easier and as a response to the comments we have seen in this thread, we have created a new page specifically for graduates with a 2.2. On it you will find jobs that accept 2.2's, as well as useful tips and info.

The page can be found at: http://www.graduate-jobs.com/graduate-jobs-with-a-2-2

I hope this thread continues to be a useful resource for you all.

Thank you.

by Colin on 01 March 2013 22:49

Hi all,

I got a 2.2 after finishing university and struggling to find a job. I don't like the idea that people think that getting a 2.2 shows a lack of intelligence, because some people may have some sort of learning problem e.g dyslexia. I still find that their maybe a glimmer of hope due to the fact that i know someone who got a third from university but still managed to still get a grad scheme at a logistics company.

by Tim on 03 March 2013 14:03

I think graduate-jobs.com can make a lot of money (and help many graduates) out of setting up a separate section for graduates with a 2:2. Personal circumstances, holding part-time work to fund your studies and being less interested in academia doesn't make you less bright than someone with a 2:1.

28% of graduates leave with a 2:2 and many will have outstanding work experience etc which many employers value more than no experience but a 2:1 in surf studies for example! I think as long as you show determination and hard work through extracurricular activities such as work experience and/or volunteering & travelling there's no need to despair!

by thereallavyeah on 03 March 2013 14:20

that seems like the kind of work where you'd be best off demonstrating your work in a portfolio, have you tried this?

by Olli on 07 March 2013 02:20

I find it incredible that some people on here have written that a 2:2 from a top university constitutes a lack of intelligence or a lack of effort. That is complete nonsense. I got a 2:2 from Nottingham in Law, Notts being one of the top 5 Law courses in the UK. There are so many pressurising factors which go into the top courses beyond merely intelligence e.g. having a quarter of your whole degree in 2 exams back to back 9 am exams. Some Universities do there utmost to make it impossible to not get a 2:1 by having coursework or triple weighting the best module grades. Employers should definitely take things like this into account because they know fully well the difference between the top uni's and the lower ranked ones (there are rankings for a reason). When I advise people on what Uni's to go to now I just tell them to do the easiest course and not to bother aiming for a top uni because if that's the goal posts that have been set up by employers now then students may as well not aspire to go to a great uni and risk falling short in the toughest courses in the land.

by Jason on 15 March 2013 12:14

I got a 2.2 in 2011 in BSc Business IT but have struggled to get into a job, I did my placement year in Spain and have been always improving on my Spanish. Does anyone know what I can do to get a job or even an internship to improve my skills. I just currently working part-time but I really just want to find a position where I can use my computing skills. If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Went for loads of interviews and I believe it is always down to have a 2.2, as I was only 4 marks off a 2.1

by ChrisE on 19 March 2013 11:29

I graduated with a 2:2, yet most of my grades were 2:1 with some 1:1. I received a 2:2 as in my final year I developed an inner ear issue which caused dizziness and I was on meds; getting no sleep, etc.,. My dissertation failed and I had to resubmit - max mark was 40 for resubmission.

A 2:2 does not reflect a lack of intelligence! You mean a lack of intellect?! Does it reflect a poor work ethic, or difficult circumstances?

I scored 128 on an IQ test (average is 100). Does that beat a 1:1?

No luck at all in the job market since 2011. But, I was a mature student, in my mid-thirties now, and couldn't afford child care to volunteer, unless from home. Have worked at copywriting, which is sporadic to say the least. No hope of a graduate scheme, or anything.

In have applied for a PGDip in Law and a English Language Masters course. Fingers crossed! Will pay for it by working labouring if I have to!! Hopefully, I can now achieve my level; although, I now suffer reduced liver function.

The situation is just bleak for all.

by Pixie on 19 March 2013 12:39

Those who come on here, saying they have a 2:2 and feel left out of the game, don't feel bad. Graduate employment is tough on all of us. I have a First in a science subject, from a top university, plus a Masters, plus work experience in multiple fields, plus was a member/committee member of multiple societies at uni - and I still can't find full-time work. In a way, I think I'd rather be told just not to apply for things than spend ages filling in an application form (because you know they couldn't possibly just take a cover letter!), doing online tests, telephone interviews and assessment centres, only to be told there was someone else who was a better fit for the job. I sympathise with those of you who feel you're unfairly missing out on opportunities, but remember the silver lining is that you don't spend ages jumping through hoops for no apparent reason, only to be chewed up and spat out. Which is exactly what many grad employers do to first-class candidates.

by Jason on 19 March 2013 23:27

Does anyone know of any programmes to do? I am going to try again and work for free through the GAPNI programme but I just don't see many opportunities around Belfast and working for free in London is something I definitely could not do. Would doing a masters say in Business Information Systems or in software engineering help me to get a job in digital marketing and developer role?

by RB on 20 March 2013 10:44

It may be worth going back to the assessment criteria on your degree assignments if anyone's confused. A 2:2 shows that your work on average was 'good' over your final two years, a 2:1 shows it was 'very good' and a 1:1 shows that your work was consistently 'excellent' or 'outstanding'. That's all (but it's quite a big 'all'!)

If you haven't demonstrated consistent excellence yet, you should start now by building up any experience you can get and impressing everyone you meet with your work ethic, commitment, high standards, organisation, knowledge, skills, etc.

Some contributors are talking about 'luck'. It's worth analyzing what happened just before the 'luck' struck - it usually involved being in the right place at the right time, which means that you should try to meet as many people as possible in professional and social settings and ensure you make the right impression.

It's also vital that you document all of your achievements as professionally as possible so prospective employers don't have to just take your word for it or trust references.

Good luck everyone - don't feed the Global Smile Crisis!

PS Which of the contributors above would you employ? You have to choose 2.

by kiko on 20 March 2013 15:58

I graduated from Loughborough (2011) with a degree in Ergonomics...yes i got a 2:2 but i can still say I have a degree from the ONLY university in the country that does this course and has a worldwide reputation. I had to have reconstructive surgery on my hand which didnt work so i spiralled into depression along with the fact I had to have 2 surgeries and was on constant pain medication. I know for a fact that I am capable of doing the same job that my friends who got a 1st and 2:1. Considering my IQ is 130 I can confirm that I'm not an idiot or thick as some of those on here who got a 1st are implying. You can have a bad exam or get a couple of questions wrong on an MCQ that can alter your degree classification.

The difference between my friends who got 2:2's and are working in human factors/ergonomics is that they did a placement year thus having that experience which i dont...which is what it essentially boils down to.

Good luck

by naz on 21 March 2013 18:45

I aint graduated yet, but am expecting a third class degree.
Those who would laugh at my grades think before you do, I have managed to secure myself a comfort job at an organization within the london city square mile.....oh yes btw im also doing my proffesional qualifications paid obviously by the company.....i aint gloating...
moral of this is lie through your teeths amplify your CVS to the maximum and aim to get your CVs out to the niche Agencies small agencies who have no capacity of search consultancie and are hungry for candidates and clients...u will hit jackpot.

by Jason on 24 March 2013 19:24

But isn't lying on your CV a criminal offence tho?

by dangboy on 25 March 2013 16:38

you spelt incompetent wrong...yuppie

by valdearg on 26 March 2013 14:26

I'm predicted a grade around the 2:1, 2:2 level on my Computing BSc. I've received a job for after university in a relevant area to my degree guaranteed no matter the degree. From their feedback on my interview it was for a number of reasons:
1) Relevant degree.
2) Experience. I had previously completed a placement year in a very varied workplace and was given an excellent review at the end of it with compliments from some of those I had worked with claiming I was one of the best students who had worked for them (possibly flattery to get me to come back to work for them, but hey, stokes my ego!). This gave me a lot of experience and knowledge for the job I was being interviewed for and allowed me to answer all questions with largely industry answers.
3) Enthusiasm. I showed a mass of enthusiasm for the job on offer as it was something I was interested in. This is by no means a job I will be constantly working in for the rest of my life, but it is an area I am interested in and will get me the jobs later down the road.

I know this stuff doesn't apply to everyone, I know getting a placement wasn't available to all students and I was lucky to get one. Also, all the usual advise like "Sell yourself" does apply. Do not lie on your CV as you will eventually be found out and dismissed instantly, no matter how well you're doing. Companies do not like to be lied to! They need to be able to trust you as they're trusting you with people's livelihoods. I also acknowledge that a lot of areas have very few job openings available.

Always keep at it, there are more jobs than the media says! If I can get a job, you guys certainly can!

by cocopops on 27 March 2013 20:19

Hi all,
After briefly going through the forum, I want to state four things:

1. University exams like any other kind of exams measure how WELL you can pass the exam! I averaged 67% in my first year with 3 weeks revision... because I strategically planned my revision i.e. didn't learn the whole year just learnt what was going to be tested.

2. Some people are not academically applied, that means they can't memorise and swallow book ( some of you refer to this as hard work ) and they need to understand the material cos that is how their brain works... having been to a top 3 university I can assure you sometimes you are lumbered with lecturers who are too smart for their own good and cannot explain a string of hair for shit.

3. Experience is what is needed for a better workforce, the richest an dmost successful individuals did not even bother going past GCSE's !

4. The major reason Britain is failing is because we are so stuck on this rubbish about grades and pieces of paper, while economies like Germany push for apprenticeship schemes. Quite frankly, I had to coach my so called First class university friends to find a job because they could fill in a bloody application or ace an interview. Ladies, and gentle common sense is most certainly not common and unfortunately book nerds sometimes lack the most common sense... that being said there are people who worked their asses off for their grades and are very intelligent but i can tell you that is a minority.

by better on 29 March 2013 09:50

If you look a human capital theory, education and experience for both ways to improve knowledge, and are two of the fundamental things employers look at. The primary issue with education is that the amount going to university has increased dramatically causing the value of a degree to fall as more people have one, which is known as degree depreciation. Therefore the employers have to up the requirements for jobs to act as a filter mechanism, hence higher grade requirements and also why experience and extra Cv enhancing things are considered much more. This is even if you standardised and suggest degree difficulty hasnt changed.
Therefore ass difficult as it might be, you have to do better/work harder and find those extra things to get in that highly employable group or have a friend. What is more annoying is the fact i have distinction (70%+) MSc in economics from a good university,(a red brick/russellgroup), but cant apply for many jobs due to ucas requirements where i only having obtained 280. Which i hear is illegal according to EU law as it meant to take into account the latest education, well at least that what my labour economics tutor said.
Basically buck up go out there find internships/work experience or your education or just anything to improve your cv and probably try to contact people directly more.

by Gary Mkaranga on 30 March 2013 15:17

To ads, london » 11 April 2012 09:13

The fact that you write 'must of' instead of 'must have' might be more of a contributing factor to your unemployability, rather than employer snobbishness towards your final grade or degree classification.

Employers have it all their own way, unless you're a 'star'. They will pay the wage, therefore they can dictate the terms on which they will employ someone - you should know this having read a degree that incorporates an interest in HR! If someone is coming out of university and cannot string a grammatically correct sentence together, what chance does that person have making it in the real world? Would they trust you to post ads for recruitment? Would they trust you to write a report heading for senior management?

Have you gained any work experience (voluntary or paid)? I know people who have volunteered their time in exchange for transport + lunch money for 3 months, and used those experiences on their CVs to gain work! Have you shown a genuine interest in their company or industry? Do you demonstrate this when you go to interview? Are you proactive in how you apply for jobs? Do you you chase applications? Do you ask for feedback when you have been rejected for a role you wanted? Have you taken steps to explore career paths related to (but not exactly matching) the roles you apply for? I always see ads for working in recruitment, which is related to but not exactly HR - have you applied for graduate schemes? Have you gained any further skills/certifications since you graduated - are you willing to keep on learning and thus add value to your skill set (which is what you 'sell' in exchange for a monthly wage BTW! Are you aiming too high in your initial applications, or are you being realistic about the jobs you are aiming for?

Prepare yourself holistically, not superficially, and you might find you are eminently more employable.

by sabir on 31 March 2013 18:56

I missed 2:1 by just 1 percent and really 1 percent away from that grade shouldn't be a big deal because majority of the company's are asking for a 2:1. i should be able to apply to them because it is only 1 percent away from the grade they are asking.

by Keith on 01 April 2013 20:14

It's more frustrating not being given a chance for that job you so desire when you are qualified and have all the experience but for the sole reason of being BLACK. One can improve on their grades, increase their chance of getting a job by volunteering, but can I improve the color of my skin? Can I change my RACE? I have a 2:1 BEng (Hons)EEE & a MSc in Engineering Control Systems & Instrumentation, a year's industrial placement not to mention from several yrs of experience as an electrician in Africa, but still cant find a job because I am black.
Frustrated

by John on 03 April 2013 11:11

Hi Keith.

As a black male myself I understand your frustration as there is discrimination out there, but often we make assumptions and decide that is the reason we didn't get a job, sometimes we simply aren't the right fit for a job.

I have been able to find myself a graduate scheme in a (FTSE250) engineering company after a couple of years of trying different things to separate myself from the pack (including starting a company in a different country). Keep working and doing unique things to show how you are different from the rest. With so many qualified people you need something to stand out from the pack these days.

by yourworstenemy on 04 April 2013 15:08

*incompetent...


*facepalm*

by Gary Mkaranga on 08 April 2013 09:55

Are you aware of what the recession has done to the job market? A few examples below:

It reduced the no. of actively hiring companies - net result: fewer jobs for the people looking
It reduced the no. of jobs in companies overall - net result: fewer jobs for the people looking
It increased the no. of unemployed graduates - net result: fewer jobs for the people looking
It increased the no. of unemployed specialists - net result:more competition for jobs available
It increased competition for all the jobs available - net result: fewer jobs for the people looking
It increased the talent pool for employers - net result: greater competition for jobs available
It strengthened the employer's bargaining position - net result: they want more skill for less £s

So when you show up waving a 'mere' 2:2 at an employer and wonder why they aren't taking you on, consider the likelihood that you're competing with people who

1) Had good jobs in industry and now need a(dot)job to get by because benefits aren't enough
2) Were working somewhere else and have re-skilled to change industry to something else
3) Have 1sts and 2:1s and are applying for ANYTHING so they can get a foot on the job ladder
4) Have skilled up overseas and come here LEGALLY on the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme
5) Have shown they can add better value to the company than you - they exist!

A job is not a right, you do have to earn it. Having a degree classification that is not optimal (anything other than 1st or 2:1 really) means you will POSSIBLY have to compete harder (and/or) for longer to secure a job. Hell, some employers still want high UCAS points (min 300!), even though their only use was to get you INTO uni - crazy if you ask me but i'm not the one holding the money bag!

Be dynamic in your thinking - read my post a few above which has some ideas on things most graduates don't think about or do, which could help them secure a job in a very competitive climate.

by Erin on 11 April 2013 22:57

I would just like to add that I am currently in my 3rd year, I have worked extremely hard on every assignment, have tried my best and am still continually getting 2:2. I have got 1sts before and therefore I do have the capacity to do it and that is the most disheartening thing. It's also annoying to watch as people who do no work also receive the same grade as you when you know that you should have one better than them. I am quite angry at some of the people who claim that a first is the be all and end all. Yes I am sure you worked hard, but so have I. Luckily I'm not applying for graduate jobs which to be honest appears just as well, I would hate to be deemed unintelligent by anyone. I have done a degree in history and English and this has proven to be one of he most challenging things I have ever done, that doesn't mean I'm stupid that means I'm normal. I have not been out every weekend and I am usually found in the library, were I will continue to be despite my inevitable 2:2 outcome. Quite frankly I would rather have a 2:2 and have to work that little bit harder to get were I want to be, than feel I have some god given right to lord it over those just a bit more unfortunate than myself.

by Lovely on 12 April 2013 12:53

Guys guys all this talk of 1:1, 2:1, 2:2 blur blurr...blurr its all crap. You just need to know someone in that company a big fish who can hire you.

by mike harris on 14 April 2013 19:26

it's an English thing, i missed a 2:1 by three percent. The first job after grad I got was purely because ( architecture ) i had a lap top with autocad on it. Wasn't interested in the grade. In Scotland a 2:2 is considered a high grade pass, so push on. You accomplished what few people - historically - ever have. In most countries around the world THAT bit of paper gets the respect it deserves - doesn't matter what it is in - it is proof that you can go the extra mile and that says a lot about YOU the person.

chin up

ps. at 48 I have been around the world, studied law, architecture and am embarking on certification in forensic computing as you never run out of doors to knock on, just get bogged down in the terrain occasionally, so do push on! It's hard, but never stop searching - look at what you know and break it down on paper, each element can have side roads that you might never have thought about. Business admin is a great place to start from, you have organization, research, planning, problem solving, leadership and team working,communication and interpersonal relationship building - all of these have off-shoots that you can explore. Money is usually the problem, i have been unemployed for a few years but i sat down and distilled architecture - from seeing a client to just the planning stage there are 16 activities. Analysis and problem solving being the predominant ones, so I have spent the last few months looking at these areas and 27 years ago I should have joined the RAF, passed the tests but injured a knee motorcycling. They wanted me to sit in Belgium analyzing information - those tests identified my core skill far better than a degree could. That is my skill - at the heart of everything I have ever done - problem solving and solution finding. It took a eureka moment, but I remembered those meetings at the RAF recruiters ind interviews and here I am doing what I should have done years ago. You might have to settle for less just to keep going, but do pleases press on.

by Elleza on 18 April 2013 17:54

For everyone trashing 2:2 grades, I know plenty of people who are on track for 2:2s who are not lazy and are far from unintelligent. Two of which are the most inspiring people I've met at university. They work their arses off in student union positions, or with part-time jobs, or organising student events and campaigns and managing clubs and societies. The kind of people with real practical skills and gifts for people management and organisation.

Yet many employers will chuck their CVs in the bin. What a stupid, stupid system. They miss out on some of the most practically-minded graduates with their elitist 2:1 cut-off.

1sts are good for people who want to be academics but you probably shot your foot off by missing out on work experience if you want to go into the world of work. 2:1s, just like 2:2s are great only if you have work experience too. Very silly that people with 2:2s are discriminated against outside of academia.

by FR on 19 April 2013 12:56

Try applying for the Track & Train scheme by Network Rail. I left uni in 2011 with a 2:2 and struggled to get a job. After a year on the scheme (which is specifically for people struggling to get a job) I have secured a job I could have only dreamed of before the scheme and I'm well on the way to getting where I want to go. It's not just your degree classification that counts, experience is equally, if not more, important.

by Marginallyannoyed on 22 April 2013 09:29

A rather narrow-minded reply by someone who appears to struggle with written English. 'Incompentant' 'Simple not'. Either that, or too lazy to proof read.

by Densel on 22 April 2013 17:44

Thanks for sharing FR. It's great to hear from someone who got a 2.2 and still has a success story! Despite all the negativity on this post, I remain an optimistic 2.2 graduate. You have to make your CV as good as possible, get some useful work experience and make sure you interview well. That's all you can do! You can't change to past but you can change the future.

by Alex on 24 April 2013 22:06

I would point out that it's not always as simple as a combination of effort and ability.
I scored a first in my initial year. The year after I fell ill to a debilitating disease that left me struggling to complete the degree at all. Mine is an extreme example but there are people who struggle with things outside of their control which affect their ability to perform, regardless of intention. I think that a degree pass of any level should carry value and be respected.

by s.mna on 25 April 2013 16:46

I am appalled by cmcguire's comment, it was unnecessary, arrogant and remarkably narrow minded. There is no reason for you to come on this forum and provide your contemptuous comments.

I worked very hard in university, but I ended with a 2.2 in History. I know people who didn't work at all who ended up with high 2.1. I would not consider myself incompetent at all, I struggled with various health problems at university, I was attending uni, working part time and going to the hospital three times a week, so I am proud of my grade! As a result of my health problems I was depressed during my final year in uni and still managed to finish. Not only that, my university messed up with my results meaning I waited 5 months before I found out my final grade.

Now I work for a charity as a researcher for a charity part time, it may not be a 25k job but at least I am doing what I love! Another comment to cmcguire, you brag about how great you are, but you failed to spell incompetent correctly! :)

My advice would be to persevere, I am still actively looking for a full time job and volunteering at the same time. Also, if you are still at university - make sure to get as much experience out of academia as you can!

Good Luck everyone!

by Chiie on 26 April 2013 18:15

I got a 2.2 and I'm working in one of the top 3 investment banks. I worked hard during my undergrad but didn't get the 2.1 I need to qualify for a graduate programme. I was devasted one piece of advice I got was to never give up and Network. Yes I didn't go through the normal graduate programme route. The world isn't always black and white. I started off as an assistant, worked my way up till I applied for a full time role in an investment bank. I got it with my 2.2 My advice..
1. Think outside the box, do unpaid internships, work shadow, attend open days, get to know a recruiter do everything, you are going to need to do more than just applying to graduate jobs, do off cycle internships, insight days, whatever event is out there in your related field that might be of interest go! That's how you build your network.
2. Build your CV up, don't lie bit sell the skills you already have. Make sure your CV is 110% before you apply, tailor a CV to a particular role, don't just send to all. It's a bit of work but it helps to personalise it.
3. Network, LinkedIn, gradute events, have a note pad and get contacts. Know who you want to talk to at these events and have questions prepare, again sell yourself.
4. Get familiar with online tests and how to do them
5. Prepare for the interview like you're preparing for a final exam. Why do you want to join the firm, why you, what skills do you have, add a touch of spice read up on something interesting about the firm show them that you've done your research and gone above and beyond. Know what you and can't do. Sell yourself
5. Don't be hard on yourself, it takes time but above all don't compare yourself to other graduates. Having a 2.2 doesn't make you any less competent. It just means you have to think outside the box a little.
6. All the very best!

by Sam Davis on 28 April 2013 10:45

A grade cannot be 100% reflective of your effort input or your capabilities.

I wonder what people make of this situation.. (Factually, rather than for sympathy purposes) I was fully on track to achieve a middle range 2:1 in Law from a Russell group uni. In the March of third year my Dad was diagnosed with cancer, which was a big source of distraction both emotionally and in terms of travelling from the North back to London. This had a bearing on my grades; specifically I landed up graduating at 58.5% just narrowly missing the boundary. The exam panel at uni looked into the circumstances but did not alter my grade on compassionate grounds. Who would agree I deserve to be disadvantaged by an external influence? I refuse to accept this makes me less intelligent or that I put less effort in than somebody who achieved 61%.
Sometimes there is more to life than grades.

FAO: C Mc Guire - strictly on grades I might not be 'as good as you' by your criteria but I have demonstrated a better standard of grammar on this thread. - Check line 6 of your message. Line 9 also has a spelling mistake. I would imagine many firms look at such minor details on applications. I have got a training contract as it so happens. It's sometimes more your interpersonal skills and connections than sheer intelligence.

by Nick Taylor on 29 April 2013 14:30

Maybe you were hired for your dazzling personality, empathetic nature or your modesty?
Sarcasm aside, you seem to lack any of the above. You have really come off as an arrogant, cocky and generally unlikeable individual. You have literally no idea of the circumstance that some people find themselves in during their time at university. I know of people graduating the same year as I am who are graduating with a 2:2 degree, due to not having performed to their full potential on several assignments due to the death of her parents. That makes you more intelligent or better than her does it? Take your childish boasting elsewhere.

Think before you speak next time.

by john on 29 April 2013 14:40

"A degree is a degree"

now that is the most stubborn and ignorant thing i've read on this forum.

There is a reason that degrees are separated into different boundaries.

a 1:1 degree is far more impressive to an employer than a 2:2; which 95% of students can achieve with no problems, vs the 5-10% that achieve a 1:1.

Being a graduate myself, who graduated a mere 1.2% off of a 1:1 last June, I know exactly who got the 2:2's; people who went out getting drunk every night, woke up at 2pm, went to bed at 5am, and didn't really put the effort they should have into their studies. I know, I lived with them for 3 years.

Saying a 1:1 is no more beneficial than a 2:2 is absolutely ridiculous. 2012 showed some of the worst graduate employment rates in history; why? Because everybody has a degree nowadays, who's parents guided them into university? I know mine did.

Because of this, employers are OBVIOUSLY going to look for the top of the graduates; i.e, the 1:1's and 2:1's, tbh the 2:1's are getting less of a look in now, if you need 5 people why would you settle for people with a lower educational qualification than a 1:1 if they are out there?

All these people on here complaining that you have 2:2's and think it's unfair employers don't want you, look realistically. Do you honestly think they can afford to risk you? A degree shows both determination and/or academic intelligence. Both of these things are vital in a business; creativity or artistic flair in a graduate scheme for barclays is a measure of intelligence, but a useless one in the circumstance. Getting a 2:2 means you either lacked academic ability, or were lazy.

by Steve (Open Uni) on 29 April 2013 18:33

I am a 49 year old Open University History undergraduate, heading proudly towards a 2-2 degree. John of Colchester I am not lazy (I hold down a part-time job as well as looking after my widowed elderly dad and studying part time. Neither am I lacking in academic ability. I find your comments highly offensive. You obviously have a lot of growing up to do.

by Jay on 29 April 2013 23:49

I can promise you I was not out partying until 5am and I can assure you also that I am far from lazy, however I can tell you I have FOUR children TWO have mental disabilities so yes I DO lose sleep, my boys have Autism, ADHA, ODD Tic Disorder, problems with social relatedness and night terrors, my husband works full time so they are MY responsibility. Added to this I have buried both my cousin and my best friend inside a fortnight, one to cancer and the second to pneumonia and might I also add I have two spinal operations in the last 3 years for a prolapsed disc which made life damn unbearable for a very long time TWICE, my IQ is MENSA tested at 131 my EQ is 63 and the average for that is 40, so no, when I come out with a 2.2 in Accounting and Finance, not an easy subject might I add, I will not be told by a jumped up excuse for a human being that I was LAZY or UNINTELLIGENT, because I am NOT lazy and I am intelligent, and if having a 1.1 or a 2.1 means acting like a superior dick-head like you then then no thanks, I would rather keep my 2.2, my humanity and my integrity as I can walk away with my head held high knowing that I am BETTER than people like you John from Colchester, you assume far too much, you know nothing of life, some one has put you up on a pedestal, when you are eating that dirt when you fall from grace, remember this, a degree does not make you a better person, understanding,listening, empathy and humanity do.

by Israel Gold on 30 April 2013 19:41

The grade obtained by any individual student is a summary of the students academic performance relative to the time of assessment. It is very unfortunate that one may as well be shallow minded to think ones performance is an indicator to differentiate an intelligent student from a daft student. Not all academically excellent students are sound and not all sound students are academically excellent .Some students are very clever but very lazy but have the innate advantage of tactically tackling exams and assessments to the points of excellence while some students are not very clever but are very hand working hence they have to struggle to do very well in exams to even have a 1st class or 2.1 or 2.2 or even worse off a third class/ ordinary.I know of students who were colleagues with me that had a 2.2 even though they were very intelligent and worked very hard. Academic excellence is product of how well one can interpret, manipulate relevant information to their best advantage in the art of exams .Hard work means you stick to a task hard and long to get result whether good or bad while Academic Excellence says one has demonstrated Knowledge in all its glory.

by Israel Gold on 30 April 2013 20:35

According to the University of Leeds which I attended as a Chemical Engineerinfg Undergraduate as well as a Post-Graduate
A 1.1 means the student scored (69.6%- 90%)= on average this grade translates to a gold medal in the Olympics.

A 2.1 means the student scored (59.5%-69.5%) on the average this grade translates to a silver medal in the Olympics.

A 2.2 the student scored (49.5%-59.4%) on the average this grade translates to a bronze medal in the Olympics.
A 3rd means the student scored (40.5%-49.4%) on the average this grade translates to a finalist but medal-less athlete in the Olympic finals.
While an ordinary means the student scored (30.5%-40.5%) on the average this grade translates to a fail/ordinary.
The truth is that some people are very academic and hence achieve the first class even though they may be lazy while others are not very academic and have to work really hard to stand a chance to achieve either the 1st class, 2.1 or even the currently dreaded 2.2 or worse off 3rd class grade.
Not all academically excellent students are sound and knowledgeable while not all sound and knowledgeable students are academically sound.
Hard work means one sticks to a task come what may to achieve a result whether good or bad. Excellence means a qualitative performance has been achieved due to effective wit.



The grade achieved by any student is only relative to the condition under which the student was able to demonstrate academic aptitude. Academic Excellence does not mean one is intelligent and Intelligence does not mean one is academically excellent. Thomas Telford never went to the University to study but was the best self-taught civil engineers in the UK from time memorial, Henry ford never went to school for more than three months but he discovered the ford. I am sorry to think that it is quite cocky and very small minded to define an individual permanently by their past achievement. Set-backs are never final because no condition is permanent. Companies who refuse to accept applicants with 2.2 degrees only do so because they are not ready to invest in the training of a graduate who has not achieved certain levels of academic success. Once the 2.2 graded job seeker gains relevant experience somewhere else the same company would not ask the same candidate about the grade they came out with in the course of time.
The case of one having a 2.2 and struggling to find work is like the case of bronze medallist in the Olympics trying to get an endorsement deal compared to a silver medallist and gold medallist. In any case, one should never ever look down on anyone or say that one has not achieved resounding success due to laziness, who are we to judge?, A time is coming when companies would have to change the way they recruit graduates when they later find that those with a 2.2 are better off in terms of quality and performance than those with a 1st Class or 2.1. It takes alot to make the 2.1 or 1st class grade in Engineering and Sciences than other areas of Study in the University.

by pods on 01 May 2013 09:30

I got a 2:2 in Mechanical Engineering, I graduate in 2011 and struggled for a year to get a graduate job. This is in-spite of doing a placement as part of my degree and I also had a part-time job throughout university. I am currently in a job that was advertised for 2:1 and 1:1 graduates. The feedback I got from my manager was that my CV stood out far better than someone with a 2:1/1:1. This is not just because of work experience but using shiny words to elaborate what you learnt/gained from that experience, for example stating 'preparing technical reports required an eye for detail' instead of plainly stating 'prepared technical reports'. Secondly during an interview show a lot of enthusiasm and more importantly try and read any technical information if you can, for example I read lots of information on Automotive engines from how stuff works and shared all this at my interview, So instantly I stood out.
So my advice to everyone is that Prepare your CV to really really stand out and you will get interviews and when you do utilize that chance completely :)

by I. R. on 01 May 2013 17:22

Hi, I just wanted to share my experience to show that it is possible to progress if you get a 2:2 - don't give up hope.

When I graduated I was upset to find I had a 2:2. I had worked my arse off and knew it would significantly hinder my prospects when applying for jobs. I did achieve a solid 2:1 for all my final year work including dissertation, however a couple of bad grades in my second year pulled me down to 1 mark from a 2:1, which made it even more annoying.

I found that I was not eligible for most of the 'graduate jobs' I wanted to apply to, and even some quite basic admin jobs asked for a 2:1. I applied to many many jobs while variously on benefits and working in a call centre, on a market stall, whatever I could do to make ends meet. It was a difficult few months. I lost my home due to a dodgy landlord and my benefits were cut when I refused to do a workfare placement at Argos so I got to the point where I had to leave London and move back with my parents.

I had been blogging about all this on Twitter and Tumblr, and an old family friend saw and called me up and said he had a short temp job he needed doing, and could I do it? On the face of it the job was not relevant to my degree or what I had in mind, but I accepted. This was my foot in the door. I absolutely made the best of the opportunity, going above and beyond what they had expected and carving out a niche in the company for myself. I found that aspects of the job were more relevant than I thought, but in an industry I would not have considered. I was also actually getting paid a decent rate, unlike many of the 'graduate internships' I'd come across. Within a month they had created a permanent role for me. I've been here 7 months now and not once has my degree been an issue - when I asked my boss he didn't care at all, and was far more interested in the work experience I'd had.

My opinion is that your degree classification only matters as far as getting your foot in the door at the first job, from then on it is up to you. I have noticed that most jobs in this company are not advertised - mine never was. It is all about who you know, doing a good job and keeping a good reputation. Not degrees. I work in digital media.

In short - don't worry, don't make your degree an issue, forget the traditional online application route and NETWORK! Put your work online, milk your contacts, make sure that people know that you're good and available to work, and don't be afraid of contacting relevant people asking for advice or a chance at work experience. Perhaps most importantly, keep a positive attitude and keep trying.

by Grad on 01 May 2013 19:36

I studied a law degree at the University of Leeds (I have no problem with naming and shaming here). During my finals I suffered from a severe neck injury and stomach problems. I went through the correct channels and applied for mitigating circumstances with a letter from my GP outlining how my revision had been substantially affected. Regardless the university decided that they knew best, ignored it and marked me 0.9% away from a 2.1, claiming that they didn't believe me.

Any budding lawyer on here will know that due to this I can never get a training contract. However, having worked part-time since I was 15, I walked into a trader job at an American investment bank in Canary Wharf. Following that, I have gone on to work for a brokerage in the Square Mile, and now work for a large newspaper. In all honesty, grades mean nothing. They don't prove how employable you are, how well you work with others, how well you understand commerce or your professionalism. Work experience does all of these things.

If anyone on here is struggling to find work due to having a 2:2, I suggest you stop blaming your grade and start addressing your work experience. Degrees do not guarantee employment, only work experience can. For the record, I now have law firms asking me to apply. The irony.

by David Brown on 01 May 2013 20:13

I achieved a 2:2 Honours Degree in Ancient History, as a Mature Student, graduating in 2011. I take offence at your suggestion that a 2:2 demonstrates either lack of intelligence or lack of work ethic...

Is it not possible that some people are not suited to the tradition examining methods; people like myself for example. I have an excellent presentation method, a great speaker, a great thinker, and highly intelligent (not just me saying this but a lot of people say so). I can think at PhD level and above but due to my lack of written ability, I get penalised! So please, do not, 'ever' say a 2:2 demonstrates a lack of intelligence and work ethic! What you should be saying, is that some people are better at non traditional ways of academic study. Or... that the so-called traditional ways are, in part... out-dated!

This is not taking into consideration, the personal issues and health problems I went through, right in the middle of my studies! So, in all honesty, I am proud of what took me through hell to achieve!!!

Furthermore, society does not like people that have the ability to achieve success on their own, it shows initiative and when you consider the British mentality, it is no wonder that those of us that have the ability to go it alone, are frowned upon and those people who have less of a traditional education are given the opportunities on a silver platter. Why? There are more of them, that are worth so much less financially than those of us who are highly qualified.

Regards

by AndreyD on 02 May 2013 21:00

I graduated in 2008 from Newcastle Uni with a 2.2 in law. I struggled to adjust to uni life in first 2 years and got hammered a lot. Like excessively. It was not even fun. I also worked part time in the first 2 years. Studying came last. I got 44% in first year, and 47% in second. This is after getting AAB in A levels at school, and thinking i was reasonably smart. Even when I thought i tried hard I couldnt get in to the 2:1s. In third year I got 60% exactly but it wasnt enough. I did a masters (waste of time) and got a merit (2:1).
Then came to london and worked as a paralegal for about 2 years in a legal aid firm on very crap money (14k). During this time I realised I was never going to get a training contract with a reputable firm and I was not planning on being a legal aid lawyer. Quit that. Was unemployed for 8 months. notwithstanding my paralegaling experience and fluent russian language.
Then got a job in a jobcentre in 2012. Over the years I had made up a list of 2:2 graduate schemes and targeted them aggressively. I had applied before but never got past the applications. End of 2012 I had progressed to 3 assessment centres for the 3 grad schemes I applied for (HMRC, Finance management scheme, and fast stream). I was offered the FMDS and have started that. I was then offered the fast stream too but declined. Awaiting the HMRC result now and then going to think.

Lessons I learned:
1. Some industries like law are pretty much closed if you got a 2:2. Though I have heard some miracle stories of people with 2:2s from not so great unis getting TCs in the city. I saw this as a gamble and did not pursue it.
2. There are a lot of 2:2 government schemes that are excellent. The one im on pays for me to do an accountancy qualification and will promote me regularly. So get good at applying for these schemes: competency questions, online tests, and assessment scheme.
3. To get good at applying to schemes I failed a lot. On the applications, on the tests, and interviews/assessments. Now I can do them to a very high standard.
4. Failure is not a bad thing. Its a lesson in how to get things right next time. Puts hairs on your chest and teaches you bouncebackability.


Also a thought. A degree classification is a reasonable/convenient/economical way to grade intelligence. However a classification does not encapsulate all intelligence. Things like inter personal skills, public speaking and others are not covered.

So those with 2:2s....theres still a lot of good opportunities and careers out there for you.

by Gill on 08 May 2013 15:36

I don't agree with the comment that those with a 2.2 degree are suffering to find degree specific work. I graduated with a 1st class degree and even though I have been in a full time office job I can not get into the field I want to.

I have been rejected from job after job as they favour those with a masters. Best idea, save, do a masters and you may get somewhere. That's what I'm going to do.

by karen on 08 May 2013 18:26

I do not mean to be rude but, it is 'were' instead of 'where'. 'I' instead of 'i' and a lot instead of alot. 'Through' instead of 'thru'. Maybe you should think about improving your grammar and spelling when applying for jobs in the future!

by Jizzy on 09 May 2013 15:27

To be honest I got a mid 2:1 in Forensic Science last year and some of my friends who got a 2:2 have already got jobs over myself. I think getting a job also has a lot to do with your personality as well definitely. In fact some of my friends who got a first cannot get jobs because some employers believe this means they are not very social people and would not be great for the company (dependant on what area of course).

by Shalini on 12 May 2013 17:46

HI
I have graduated with a 2.2 in Business Admin I have worked hard. However finding it hard to find a job. I had a couple of interviews including in a bank however did not do well in my interviews. I guess even if I had a first class or 2.1, I would not be getting a job it all depends on the person as well i guess how confident you are in your interview etc. are there any schemes or help available to get into good jobs?

by Rk on 13 May 2013 18:44

I disagree also that candidates with a 2:2 are over looked. My opinion would be if your better than the othe candidates on the day you have a fairer chance as anyone else. I'd say start by ensuring you are aware of spelling a grammar rules! (To the last person that is complaining about not getting anywhere)

by alex on 15 May 2013 12:13

Don't panic to much over a minor conviction after five years it is considered spent and a lot of employers would overlook a minor issue that could be shown was out of character. If its in engineering look of shore as a lot of people working off shore can be a bit rough and ready.

In general though seems to be a bit of whining that hey I got a degree, spent the money but only got a 2.2. If there is genuine extenuating circumstances employers will consider it but like others have said its a big market of job hunters if you got an unfair result for a 2.2 that is no guarantee that at the interview there wasn't some else who's parents died, pet ran away, partner divorced them for working all the hours not at uni with a chart and still got a first class degree.

Don't focus on how unfair the market is work out how you can make yourself a more attractive candidate so as already said look at charity work. When creating your cv bias all the points to show you at your best. BUT DON'T lie, you will be found out most likely especially if its a top tire employer and then you will be considered as having a poor personal ethic. If you lie about a 2.1 when you could have justified your 2.2 then you will probably lie about anything and managers don't need nodding dogs whose actions will come back to bite them in the a#$ they need staff who will give an honest appraisal and implement policy as expected.

by Luke Ferguson on 15 May 2013 13:54

Hi all,

I am unemployed with a university degree (2:2) and am on the Work Programme, my advisor nominated me to attend a Youth Employment Convention which ran for two days in London last week.

While there I attended a 'breakout session' entitled 'Why People go to university?' One of the speakers said that having a 1st class honours meant nothing these days. thi was in answer to a question made by a CEO asking where are all the graduates or are companies being too picky.

So what I am saying is having a 2:2 places you in a no better or worse position than those with a 1st. So keep looking and contacting companies via telephone, email whatever and you will be successful, also one good tip i picked up is if you have done a marketing qualification then sign up to LinkedIn and use your coursework as an example of your work and create a campaign to send off to companies as examples, or do what the person giving me the advice did and that is to sit in recruitment agencies offices until they find you a position (or you get thrown out lol whichever is sooner).

by Waqas Ali on 16 May 2013 11:57

As a abecederian, in my opinion economic climate is a culprit.We are bound to take a start from a little dscendent position due to market pressures and social pressures.As a researcher, I have observed that todays economic climate foments obsessive passionates in the market and on the other hand the well reputed companies look for harmonious passionates.

''What I am trying to say that most of us are doing the jobs which our degrees do not corrospond to''

My opinion could be treated as ipsidixitism.But in order to prove yourself in market degree is just not a criteria to acknowledge someones ability.Organizations are swamped with deluge of applications.Apart from just degrees they need employees who can show syncretic cognition ,analytic congnition and certainly time flexibility.

by Laud Mawuli Dzokoto on 28 May 2013 05:09

I understand why some people disregard 2:2 degree classification of which I'm a victim and I do sometimes feel ashamed though but, genuinely I know I was a first(1st) student.

I arrived in the uk in 2004 from Ghana as an international student and did my G.C.S.E in Science(Physics,Chemistry and Biology) I obtained an AA was just less than 3 marks away from AA**. I had an 'A' in Maths and a C in English. Prior to my G.C.S.E I had S.S.C.E an equivalence from Ghana.

My problems started to compound when I started part time 20 hours job in Supermarket giant Walmart subsidiary. I was working and studying 2 years A levels Science and Maths I had to pay my A' level fees while studying about £3,000. I did very well in my 1st year A levels. In my 2nd year A' levels I had to start working towards my university(Roehampton) where I studied Biomedical Science. At the end of my A' levels course I had Bioloy=C, Physics= C, Maths= D, Chemistry= D.

I made it to university and had to pay £9,000 on my own for 3 years working in supermarket. Through out my degree I had really good coursework marks and borderline marks. You don't and won't understand what it means financing every aspect of your livelihood, food, transport, bills at home, uni fees and other extra expenses. So I virtually had little or no time to study properly for my exams. At the end of my degree I had a 2:2. I studied full time.

Right after university I had a job as a laboratory technician from 2010-2012 part- time while again working to finance another Masters course. I got the job as a technician in my former college because I knew a tutor who knew the head of technician managers. I was covering for a maternity leave.

Whilst studying my masters in Science Pharmaceutical biotechnology, I was working just over part time in a supermarket and working part time as a technician. I graduated with a PASS at MSc and completed my maternity cover so left it and now stuck with my supermarket job which I have had close to over 5 years.

I got married to a British and have applied for numerous teaching jobs and technician roles and have had several interviews. Now that I have my right to fully work I'm still applying and hoping to get a job. I know someone in similar situation as me and has got an NHS job as lab assistant.

IN GENERAL A 2:2 graduate in some cases has:

a) Numerous personal problems burdens which is beyond their control
b) sometimes not all cases have few writing skill deficiency
c) Not genuinely having the time to study and not having proper academic assistance


This is just a case study so that the self proclaim righteous academic intellectuals who portray themselves as being 'superior' or better.

GETTING A JOB IS:
a) Mainly based on LUCK
b) Who you know your networking and connections
c) I have applied for jobs and employers look mainly for experience depending on which sector you want to enter. Different sectors require for specific experiences that others don't require for.

For instance,I have worked as a Biology technician for over a year and half in a college, and applied for industry job who expect me to have GOOD MANUFACTURING PRACTICE (GMP) experience which I don't have.

I am still working night shift in the supermarket to meet my daily expenses whiles hoping to get some experience or interviews during the day. Sometime you have to sacrifice sleep to obtain your desire job.

I am either looking to doing my PHD in open university or any traditional university settings or learn optometry and get into medicine and hopefully become an Ophthalamic surgeon.

But my options in life is open I want to stay within the Science field and gain as many experiences as possible.

SO ANY HUMAN BEING is capable of getting a 1st class degree just that life is not fair, luck is not evenly distributed and networking varies. So many phenomenon are un-explainable and everyone is unique even if you get a 3rd or just a pass at the undergraduate.

It may appear that going to so called IVY university gives you an advantage but there is no guarantee. Life is all about competition and doing what you can do and earn a descent salary to support yourself and family in the long run.


STAY BLESS AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL 2:2 DEGREE HOLDERS AND BELOW. We shall be counted regardless what others think.

by tmsmith on 09 July 2013 09:34

I read a lot of the comments below and then, honestly, I got bored.

I got a 2:2 when I graduated in 2009, since then I've done nothing with my degree. I was 2 marks off a 2:1, I know a lot of you with a 2:1 or higher are still complaining you can't get a job but at least you can get your c.v. past the initial email application to these graduate schemes.

If you don't get past that stage it has more to do with who you are as a person than your grade.

So to get to my actual point, I know the employers have to put limitations on the applicants some how otherwise they just wouldn't be able to get through all the applications. But some of the most intelligent people I know are not graduates and certainly not 2:1 and above graduates.

Academics are required to read and regurgitate information, and very little more, no common sense, snippets of independent thought are heavily backed up by other people's work.

As an example I know a Phd student, she has consistently received high 1:1 grades for previous degrees and is now only awaiting the confirmation that she has got a pass. But she is completely unemployable, would not be able to cope in an office and awaits to be told the next task when finished her work, which is . She's not stupid but she is only really capable of jumping through academic hoops. Any employer would regret taking on a person that they need to molly-coddle.

So the arrogant belief you should get a job because you have a higher degree shown by some people on this thread, is ridiculous. Yes you worked hard and got a grade but there are just as many people who missed out on the higher grade, not through laziness as you may think, who would beat you if given the opportunity to get in front of the these graduate employers.

Personality and initiative will be far more useful to you in the workplace than an ability to copy other people's work.

Note - obviously my point does not relate to specific degrees which are required for specific careers but to those of us who did something really useful (sarcasm) like History.

by James on 29 July 2013 17:34

Don't despair everyone! Just apply for a job with this guy:

http://www.studentbeans.com/student101/a/Universities/top-employer-only-wants-grads-with-22s-and-3rds5036.html

by Sarah on 30 July 2013 11:33

People need to be more optimist about 2.2 degrees, despite what some say it not the end of the world and degrees become less valid as the years go on and it's more about the experience and work you have. I got a 2.2 and got into a grad scheme after applying to hundreds of thing (even if it was just for interview experience). My employer was quite happy with my degree and was more concerned with me as a person and my work experience. Both me and my flatmate (the two that didn't quite get the 2.1's like everyone else) got grad schemes while the others are still looking. Knowing we were at a disadvantage at the beginning made us work harder and fight for positions when we were lucky enough to get an interview. So don't lose hope!

by Char on 31 July 2013 13:33

Wow. Harsh from someone incapable of spelling 'incompetent' correctly. I for one think employers deserve better than graduates who either can't or can't be bothered to check their spelling, especially when looking down on others. I suggest cmcguire dismounts one's high horse!!

by 1.1>2.2 on 01 August 2013 14:30

I stumbled across this forum when I felt slightly down about getting 73 in my recent essay. I completely agree with the majority of posts here regarding extenuating circumstances... During the 45 minutes it took me to write such an embarrassing essay, I was distracted twice by my cat. I also struggle have particular requirements concerning the colour of the paper I write on. So as you'll be aware of by now, I had a lot going against me before I even started writing. And if this wasn't enough, I was also hungry.

My proposal for those with 2:2 grades is simple: just sit back and let smarter people decide your fate. As a 1:1 student myself, I suggest we liquidise you and feed you to the pets owned by 1:1 students. As most students of science here will no doubt be aware (actually, not students of science in this forum because you're all moronic), pet alleivate stress which can easily increase a 1:1 grad's grades by a mark or two....

So the essence of the story is this: your ARE useful. Don't let your mum, dad, brother, husband, wife get you down with their repeated half-arsed lies about how 'well' you did, and how 'hard' you tried.

Well Done

by alex on 01 August 2013 14:37

having just grauated wiv a 2.2 i cant find anything. its well frustrating when i have worked tremdosly hard to get where i am from humble begginninnggs. all you with a first are so arrogent and dont know anything. just because you got lucky in exams you feel that you have to come here and emberass people with worse marks. can i also say that reading some of the storys of how people with 2.2s are getting jobs in all sorts of shops is really inspiring me and is cheering alot of other people like myself up. i would to encorage many other similar graduates to keep posting success stories as it shows there is light at the end of a long tunnel.

by Luke on 01 August 2013 17:18

I find it unreal at the amount of people with first class honours coming onto this post and slating people with 2.2s. At the end of the day, like my good friend bobby valentino said we're 'only human', so please just allow the pain or it could get rather peak in this forum. I would love it if i didnt see anoffa post from the someone on their high horse shaming all the people with 2.2s.

I didn't go to uni I set up my own business (handed down from my dad) and am now a fully licensed locksmith so come off that high horse and speak to me about not achieving.

by momoma on 01 August 2013 17:19

The amount of whining in this forum is insufferable. Why should employers feel the need to consider applicants who can not grasp 60% of the material in their chosen field. We live in a meritocracy, adapt or stack shelves.

by andy on 02 August 2013 10:58

I graduated with the peoples degree (2:2 in 1984) and was only ever able to get a job by moving abroad. Now I am back in the UK and doing temporary driving jobs (and not getting too many of them). I really enjoyed my course but but it has never led to anything significant in terms of a career. I would advise anyone to seriously wonder whether a degree is worth it these days. I think that only the very rich can afford to go to college. Meanwhile if you want a taxi...

by Phil on 02 August 2013 16:07

I have just completed a degree in Accounting and Finance and got a 2:2 due to extenuating circumstances basically I suffered a seizure during my time at Uni. I have had interviews but no solid job offer which is highly annoying. the main problem hasn't always been whether or not I have a 2:1 most of the time it is experience in a similar role to the job being offered.
I have hope as a friends friend graduated from Southampton Solent Uni years ago with a 2:2 and now he is a Financial Director earning alot, as he was prepared to move locations.
It is good to get a 2:1 or a 1st but it is not the end of the world if you get a 2:2, you just need to get the experience. after all a degree shows you know the background and process in academic terms but experience shows you have lived the job in real life terms.

by 2:2 and fine on 03 August 2013 10:50

My course (Business Studies with Marketing) included a placement year and although I ended up with a 2:2 I believe my work experience helped me get my post graduate job. I finished university 7th June and started work on the 10th. My employer is investing lots of training in me including the Chartered Institute of Marketing qualification and various software training. I didn't dwell on my grade and have been seeking any opportunity that has come my way. Don't let it define you.

by Lynne on 05 August 2013 01:21

To cmcguire, hants:

It's unfortunate that you've designated yourself as a superior student when, sadly, your spelling and grammar are less than one would expect from a first...

by Ricky on 14 August 2013 00:16

Hi people with 2:2s

I recently graduated from a top 20 university with a 2:1 and like many of you I have been unable to find employment. I have put in a 100+ applications and I have only advanced to four telephone interviews, to which one was an assessment centre, for a sales role, that I particularly didn't want.

Basically to those with 2:2s all I can say is hang on in there just like everybody else and maybe do a job that you might not want to do for a while, potentially like myself, and stack shelves. It's far from glamourous and it's highly understandable that nobody really wants to do this sort of job, but the story here is simple: it's tough, even with a 2:1s and I truly empathise with the lot of you.

Here is hoping that we can all do well.

by Ali A on 20 September 2013 19:56

I see a lot of people here with 1st and 2.1's say that they did free work experiences to enhance their future prospects. Have you taken into consideration the perspective of the people who did not qualify for a student loan and worked 2 jobs to earn thier rent and food money. which btw was not sufficient and consequently ended up mal-nutritioned and had one meal a day worked 5 days a week (yes thats how i spent my student life. I did not study all the time with everything served to me on a silver plater like most 2.1 and 1st students).

and 2.2 does NOT show you are intellectually inferior. Leme prove it. I had a 2.2 at LLb (Hons). and following this i worked in a common wealth country for 2 years as a lawyer. I returned to UK with savings of worth 5000 Pounds and applied for BPTC (which has a minimum requirement of 2.1 UNLESS you have relevant work experience AND your personal statement is good enough).

I did a part time BPTC and worked full time 1 year to make up for expenses and fee's and i had to borrow a lot of money from people as well (yes I am drenched in debt for the sin of having a dream). MOST of my class mates had 1st and 2.1's.... I was one of the few handful who did NOT have a 2.1. and I still ended up in the top 30% of my batch with a 71% at the end of the BPTC. I did better than alot of 2.1 and 1st students. DESPITE bieng a 2.2 student.

From a 2.2 at 58% to a Very competent at 71%. SEE 2.2 students are not always stupid. sometimes they have VERY difficult circumstances. .... my academics prove that I AM a 1st student BUT no company would take into consideration the shit i went through and ONLY assess me like a 2.2 student and call me intellectually inferior.

I have NEVER seen a single 1st class student who had anything to worry about. They all had life's necessities handed to them on a silver platter. If there is a 1st student who worked as hard as i did to make it. bring em to me and i will salute them.

by K.K. on 21 September 2013 13:05

U cheeky Sod,.... great that you are soooo into bigging up the "1st's" that you got,... but just for everyones peace of mind... all that intensive chat about how deathly important a "2:1 or 2:2" really is.... I went to UEL & just graduated with my BSc in Psychology & the fact of the matter is that in the USA ( for example)... you either HAVE your Bachelors Degree or you dont, there's none of this "Oh, I got a 1st or a 2:1 & should be considered somehow "better"... thats rubbish. Those seperations or distinctions ,.. whatever you guys call them dont exist in America,... so I wont be worrying about it. I think you need work experience, DEFINITELY & alot of footwork & faith in yourself, the degree is only a formal document to show that your educated to a minimum level, you should volunteer to get a foot in their door.
K.K. (UEL class of 2013)

by JC200 on 22 September 2013 21:15

Have had a perusal of some of the postings on this thread and could not help but make a comment.

Firstly if you have a 2:2 that is not necessarily a demonstration of your ability and it is noted at certain places. I suppose I am a recentish grad (2009), working for leading company in my industry. Recently I have been introduced to training and developing newbies, mainly grads, and it has been quite an eye opener. We have recently recruited, a number of which with 1st's from the Russell Group. I have personally found that there is not necessarily a link between a fancy degree from a great uni and actual ability. In addition some of the individuals with 1st's are lacking in fundamental skills. So those of you coming on this thread and large-ing it in front of others should pipe down, you may be one of those that are not all that.

Going through some of these individuals work is actually embarrassing, not just for them but the universities we hired from. It is not a good advert. Alot of it are the basics i.e. spelling, grammar and use of the English language. If you don't have that then you are no good to us, and you do not need a 1st class degree to get this right. However it can also be how one deals with clients and affiliates. Common sense, attention to detail, teamwork, getting of your a**e and making a cup of tea for the team once in a while and general work ethic have been well below the standard expected of those with a first. And on the flip side those without firsts, (2:1's and 2:2's) can more than show the abilities we look for over the '1st class' trainees. If you have a first and have the other qualities we need, then great but its not the be all and end all as we have discovered the hard way.

I suppose the message I am trying to get across is do not give up hope if you have a 2:2. I imagine it can be hard when all you see is job adverts stating degree requirements in the upper crust. I cant speak for all the companies out there but it is starting to be noticed that you can get great employees even if they don't have the decorated 1st. Soft skills, common sense and ability to communicate well in all its forms are more important than the quals you may or may not have in my opinion. The amount of people coming out of uni has created these barriers in recruiting but hopefully the culture will change.

In future, every time I see an individual with a 2:2 on their CV I will look beyond this and look at the bigger picture (experience, extracting and emphasizing relevant info from their CV for the position they apply for and soft skills). This may not mean they get hired, but I/we generally view it as a level playing field. Perhaps others will follow suit as we are starting to see that there are many that are not equipped for the working environment, however this is another topic in its own right so I will leave it there. Good luck to all...

by Kim on 23 September 2013 22:08

I recently graduated with a 2:1, and I did an Access course to get myself back into the education game. Although my Access course has left me with the equivalent of seven A-levels, six A's and one B, I have been told that it is not recommended for me to further my online application with the Sainsbury's graduate scheme because I don't have proper A-levels. To be fair, it isn't my first choice, but I thought I would apply for a few different schemes to see what the application process was like. Despite this, that response angered me. They seem to think that everyone goes through life taking the 'correct' path, and if you deviate from this path then you are lacking; yet they have no idea of life circumstances.

I was told further on the page that, should their requirements not be met, I could apply for a position through their normal careers website and work my way up. I am already a Sainsbury's colleague, and I can tell you that they don't really favour employing people who already work there as Team Leaders or Department Managers, at least not anymore. They always seem to employ Team Leaders from other companies, or from other stores, just because they can't be bothered to do the training.

My other gripe is that they want you to have outstanding GCSE's; I have the GCSE's, but it just makes me laugh the lengths that they will go to shortlist candidates, because you are going to base your perception of me on what I was like ten years ago. Come on!

On a side note, the problem with many graduates from my class is that hardly any of them seemed to hold down a job, let alone ever having a job prior to university. So a lot of graduates are leaving at the age of 21 (and it is usually the younger graduates) without any kind of practical work experience, and believe me, having a bogstandard job in retail, stacking shelves, does actually help.

by Julie on 25 September 2013 10:53

@cmcguire, hants :
I sincerely hope you get everything you deserve in life.

by Julie on 25 September 2013 11:17

Am reading a lot of stories and assumptions about student life, laziness and inability. These might be the reasons that many people fail to achieve a 2:1 or 1st. There are also many sad cases of student hardship and study hours sacrificed for paid work to survive the uni years. There are other cases of personal difficulties or practical barriers, too. I have sympathy in all cases to be honest - life is like that and we grow and make mistakes and overcome obstacles (including confronting our own prejudice)and we have to deal with whatever life deals us.
But has anyone, like me, been screwed over by the Open University? Those of you who have will know exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm a mature returner, unable to get student finance to attend a bricks and mortar, who worked full time, and was a full time mother, whilst studying part time over years and years to complete a degree, was always broke had no social life as I was always studying, but ended up being screwed by the weighting policy and a fundamentally unfair awarding strategy (especially as it was a case of Russian Roulette at times with one tutors).
I have experience, a very good (actually excellent) work ethic, am intelligent and managed 95% for one dissertation piece. The Open University does not award degree classifications on intelligence, subject knowledge, hard work or application of skills - if it did I would have a 2:1 or even a 1st. Openness and honesty is what is needed by some institutions who need to consider their moral and ethic stance rather than their business tick boxes and blind eyes (again, other OU students who were badly treated like me will know exactly what I'm talking about).
It actually saddens me to think that the country and the future of our industries and institutions is to be in the hands of some of the 1st class graduates who have posted on here.
I would like to thank all of the posters who have offered practical advice and moral support, your comment are much appreciated.
Julie

by Jack on 25 September 2013 15:30

I think for some students to say it's laziness and some to say it's about application are both part of the truth. But overall, from my own experiences, I've found that some people are smarter than others, and some more academic than others. It's just the way it is, even at institutions of higher education.

My only grievance with with the 2:1 vs. 2:2 situation is the cut throat nature of it. I just saw this on the homepage and don't know what to make of it.

http://www.graduate-jobs.com/news/12409/Shake_up_to_degree_classifications_to_be_trialled

Seems a bit of shame to do away with the tradition of degree 'classifications' and make a degree like an A level to an A, B or C grade, but it would give a bit more colour to the applicants that employers are so keen to sift because of result.

by 2.2&Proud. on 27 September 2013 14:52

Hello all,
I am also in the 2.2 bracket when I graduated in 2010. I did have some extenuating circumstances regarding my classification but I have never mentioned this when applying for jobs. I also have a Masters degree and I have often been told this makes me over-qualified for some jobs.

I have been working since I was 14, and have done a range of voluntary and jobs since then including many international experiences studying and working - not financed by the bank of mum and dad but through hard-work and savings.

It is possible for you to find a job with a 2.2 the jobs I have done in my ''professional'' career including the one I am about to start, have told me the 2.2 was not a factor in their choice, and a lot of the time they didn't look at my Master but that I had more experience in the field I am working in and have more skills than most 1st degree classifications, and I can present myself well in interviews.

Don't be put off by rejection for some of the larger companies, there are alternative routes if you feel the larger graduate schemes are not accepting your qualification. Yes, it is fantastic for those who have a higher degree but in my experience abroad the companies do not even care about the level but its what experience you can offer.

by Bongo on 30 September 2013 20:59

I have a couple of good stories to share.

Beware that if you get a 1st / 2.1, and find yourself in a lucrative grad scheme - YOU ARE EXPECTED TO WORK and not just sit idly by thinking your professional career and all the benefits of it will fall gracefully into place.

I know of one boutique investment firm who fired 5 graduates - their whole annual intake. These graduates all had high grades though the problem was that they just didn't understand the effort required. They loved the role because of the image, but they didn't respect it. After firing the lot - the company started training two hard working temps instead who were much more grateful, and subsequently worked damn harder.

Grades aren't everything, but also don't place to much emphasis on these corporate grad schemes... FACT = Ernst and Young / When it comes to passing the ACCA Accounting qualification that grads undertake at the firm - their pass rate is significantly below the national average.

by Blueberry on 30 September 2013 21:31

This comment is too idiotic to have come from any form of earthly intelligence. Ignore it.

Grades aren't everything, I work in IB and a number of the older folk here never went to college. Here's one good tip for you all - asking recruiters at the corporations you want to work for, which external recruiters they use for temping. Register with them, make it clear what you are looking for, and work damn hard the rest of your life. It's a an easier foot in the door and if you have the stuff, they will offer you progression or a scheme to join. Happens all the time. good luck

by andy on 30 September 2013 22:20

Er surely no one seems capable of doing simple mathematics(especially George Osborne). There seem to be (at the last count) 3 million people looking for work and half a million vacancies... doh!

by Ads on 01 October 2013 00:25

Right wow i am rather surprised that being the originator of this forum that that it still be going on kinda nice to know people are still sharing their views and not so much the negative views .

Well ime that 2:2 graduate well i have to say it been hard !!but i kept my options open ,willing to try everything and people don't stick to your discipline (no one goes into their degree profession ,if so very rare).

Right i can honestly say as a 2:2 grad i met some right brainless Baboons,incompetent in jobs and they either have masters ,1st or 2:1 and their ability to apply themselves is rather shameful !! how the hell they got the job ,i don't know yet alone how they are still there , i don't know ,ide just say LUCK.Lucky come into to play a lot along with ,right place at right time and if you have a contact that helps ALOT (NOT what you know ,its who you know).

After struggling to find work i can honestly say the pieces are falling into place and ,.ow and it will with time ! you have got to show on your CV your being productive , fill them gaps up with courses ,ANYTHING (just dont LIE).

I recently am /have been employed by some the top ten Project Management companies in the UK,working on mega projects and i seem to find myself leaving due to incompetence of the staff i have been working with .This now leads me onto to question the English educational system and the fact that every 'tom dick and harry' has a degree or a masters ! I cant say i got my jobs because of my degree but showed evidence that as soon as i came off a job i didn't sit at home but immediate kept busy with a course hence showing your driven and committed (essential to employers).

I would not suggest volunteering to all ,mind you charities are getting rather picky! if you are not careful it can be seen as ''last chance '' desperate measure to work!

Keep at it, if you get a chance work abroad ,DO IT, differentiate yourself!

P.s to all them grammar /spelling gurus BITE ME ! if you haven't got anything good to say ,dont say anything at all enough with all this nit picking people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Jobless guy on 07 October 2013 20:09

I have a Distinction in Biochemical Engineering from UCL, a 2.2 from Imperial doing Biology and 4As for A-level. I thought doing a Masters degree would give me a new start, maybe people would over look the fact I have a 2.2 for my undergraduate studies...the sad truth is it doesn't!

I am still struggling to get a job. I send out tonnes of applications, they just get rejected straight away, I dont even have a chance to sale myself-_-. I am trying to get some work experience through volunteering, hope it helps.
Getting a 2.2 is seriously seriously hard on getting a job...................

by Alfie on 08 October 2013 21:42

I graduated in 2011 with a 2:2 and I'm watching all my class mates moving on. I feel stuck in a horrible admin job, which as mentioned in previous replies, I got out of pure luck! However I know I am completely competent at my work place and find myself taking on or covering managers responsibilities. I just wish it was for a position I loved.

Reading the previous posts have cheered me on a bit as I've been getting down reading the 2:1 min requirement, so thank you! However I do wish employers would let down their barriers slightly and take more factors into consideration as I feel like I'm falling at the first hurdle.

But gotta keep applying!!....Good luck everyone!!

by Alex on 10 October 2013 23:03

I don't understand why everyone is so negative. Surely in this climate you must be aware that a degree is not enough and you need a lot of experience. I graduated with a 2:1 in 2011 and naively believed that the fact that I had some decent experience under my belt, a good degree and a willingness to work anywhere that I'd get a decent job after a while. This of course was not the case. I had several interviews for grad schemes and graduate jobs but low and behold I would be in interviews with people who all had copies of my CV. Same decent degree, same level of experience, same outgoing, personable and witty comments during the interviews. Even if I was the weak link, I came out of most of them thinking that no one really stood out from each other. It is, as everyone has already mentioned an extremely competitive environment.

So I continued working, continued to apply, made the most of my current job and any existing connections (I wanted to work in Marketing/PR). I blogged for companies, approached local charities to offer to help raise their profile, did work experience/placements at anywhere that would take me, did short courses, attended networking events, freelanced for smaller emerging companies all whilst working a full time job. And yes, don't get me wrong, I also cried a lot about why no one had any sense to employ me.

Now as a result of a lot of graft I have a landed a marketing job in ftse 100 company for a big brand and I absolutely love it. If I'm honest, I don't think my degree got me there, it was everything else I put in alongside.

If anything if I had got my job straight out of university maybe I would be different. I am certainly a lot more confident in my abilities and don't feel as useless as i probably would have been starting in a company fresh out of university, being a bit scared on the big bad world. Obviously at the time I did not think like that and have shed more tears than I care to think, just thinking about jetting off to Timbuktu and teaching my self to live of the land.

I certainly have a long way to go and just because you get 1 job, you are not set forever free from the depths of disparity, but please don't be so hard on yourself if you got a 2:2. Whether you feel you bloody earned it or regret not doing everything you can, your degree classification is not the be all and end all. You just need to get a little creative, but if you have passion for what you want to do then you can get passed a few rejections emails (I fear I did reach over 1,000 rejection letters!!!).

Plus, my boyfriend didn't even go to uni and landed a graduated job because he was 'graduate equivalent' based on his a levels and mounted up a heap of brilliant experience by not going to university. Yeah that well pissed me off.

by Esther on 11 October 2013 13:42

I have been following this forum for a while and it always gives me a boost when I feel depressed about my work situation.

I graduated in 2012 from the University of Kent with a 1st. I must admit, when you are at university, you gain this confidence that once you graduate, jobs offers would be rolling in. But I quickly realized that it was all a facade. From the start of my final year, I started applying for graduate schemes and by June 2012, I had applied to over 100 schemes and reached several stages in major companies but they always managed to choose a candidate who had either done a placement year or had loads of experience. So even though I interviewed really well, participated in extra curricular activities and was able to show that I could work well in a team and possessed a lot of enthusiasm, personality, knowledge in Finance and other employable skills, it just wasn't enough.

I wouldn't say I fully understand how most people on here felt because I know my grade opened the doors to more interviews but the rejection part is similar because after a while you start to think, is it me? One company actually told me I do not fit their business needs. Like what is that supposed to mean? I would prefer if you say you didn't choose me because of this and that but business needs? Your business NEEDS a new employee.

But not to go on and on, I don't understand why people feel like if they don't get onto a graduate scheme, it is the end of the world. Yes they promise you a structured program where you rotate in different departments and gain a breath of experience but you can easily achieve that on your own.

Starting out is the difficult part. I remember when I started looking for regular jobs and I was offered a temp job with a salary of £8 an hour. Initially I refused because I assumed that surely a degree would be worth something more than that. But after months of sitting at home, I finally agreed and just a week into the role, I was offered a permanent position with an average starting salary. I am now in my second job earning a decent salary.

My advice for anyone who feels disheartened by a 2.2 degree is not to be disheartened. There are times when you might feel down and out but you just have to look for ways to differentiate yourself and you would get noticed. Don't overlook any opportunity because that might be just what would push you to the job you really want. EXPERIENCE is king these days, no-one even cares how much you have studied until you reach management level.

And in this job market, doing a masters is not always the answer because then you would be seen as overqualified as majority of people in regular jobs don't even have degrees so there is a good chance that your interviewer won't have a degree and they definitely wouldn't hire you for fear of taking their job. I know of someone who didn't get any interviews because of that and the moment she removed her masters from her CV, she got loads of job offers. But now that she is in, she can use her masters to move further.

by Jimmy on 12 October 2013 11:37

I got a 2.1 in Geography from a Russell Group university and despite having about 8 interviews since graduating this summer my lack of experience seems to be the reason someone else is chosen over me. It is definitely all about experience. But because so many jobs have a really high volume of applicants the big companies in particular have to put in filters such as a 2.1 degree or higher with a minimum of 300 UCAS points. I think its wrong but its the only way they can limit the number of applications.

I am now working in IT for a document management company on a temporary basis to get some work experience to hopefully achieve my dream of being a transport planner. All I can say is work experience is much more important that a degree is. If you are at university now try and get some work experience before you graduate whether it is an internship or even being an ambassador at your university. I didn't and it probably cost me getting a job or two due to little practical experience shown in my interviews.

by Nas on 18 October 2013 18:31

I graduated in 2010 with a 2:2 in an IT related degree. I have been struggling to get my foot in the door. I have volunteered and worked in any company that took me on. atm I am taking a part time course in IT, participating in Hack days and volunteering with 2 different charities. I also apply between 5 to 10 jobs a day, mostly in the IT sector and any other graduate position I think I can do.

I am not earning any money at all and feel very depressed. I have done everything in my power to get my foot in the door but its proving to be a lot harder than I thought.

After reading other peoples stories I feel a bit better and am learning to cope with my situation a bit better.

I feel like a failure because the people I graduated with have managed to get their foot in the door through contacts.

by Adeel on 19 October 2013 15:47

Surely employers would look to take graduates with 1:1 or 2:1 because this shows that they were dedicated and took extra steps to complete their work (to a very high standard). If you had a strong passion in the subject and was dedicated you would have got a 2:1 or 1. The degree classifications are set to filter away the not so hardworking people to the people that will take the extra mile to accomplish their tasks.

by ANGIE on 20 October 2013 21:33

i agree with you, yu can't compare 2;2 with 1:1 . i suggest voluntary work is the key. i hv a masters merit bt nobody seem to care abt my cv or applications which brings me to this web to figure out if its only me. bt i found the answer agency work or voluntary work,then you prove yurself hard work

by IT on 21 October 2013 00:14

Adeel you know you are just trying to get a rise out of someone by saying only people with 1st and 2:1 work hard so between the lines you are saying that everyone who gets below a 2:1 has just gone to uni for a holiday away from home. You know that’s not always correct come on, you know your brain sees a bigger picture here.
People get a 2:2 because they have chosen to push themselves in a subject that they are not overly familiar with and at a level that is higher than they have previously studied for. People also have extenuating circumstances and the margin between those grades could be just 1 or 2 %.

by Colin Leatham on 21 October 2013 01:54

What about people with learning difficulties?

by Siraj on 22 October 2013 12:45

I am feeling the pressure as-well. I graduated in 2010. I have 3rd. i know its really disappointing but that was purely because of my family problems i.e. throughout the degree i was facing huge mental stress and nearly went crazy. In my second year my dad died in a car accident. In my third year prior to my exams my mother and brother got murdered. It was hard for me but still i did not quit and finished my degree. The problem i am facing is employers do not wanna know me because of what grades i achieved at university. I was the brightest student in my class. I received a star awards in 35,000 students. My biggest problems NO INTERVIEW INVITATIONS.......
I am originally from Himalayas and moved to UK when i was 17. Now looking back what a journey it has been, full of sorrows(pain) and joy.
Now here i am laboring and pizza hut delivery driver, in Kent.
Still positive tho. Got passion and determination in me. I will get where i want to.
I will say my friends do not feel rejected, keep trying and you will achieve your goals.

by ben on 23 October 2013 10:41

Trying to get into finance industry with a 2:2 seems like its not going to happen for me. graduate jobs doesn't present enough opportunities, they need to contact the companies and tell them about UK students.

by Allan on 23 October 2013 20:12

Well that's the order of the day, but to be honest there are a lot of factors that govern the outcome of a graduate change in background, family issues, social and environmental to mention but a few. Each case has its own merit and the problem is how to cut through and disect which is which.

by Phil on 23 October 2013 23:12

Hey
Even if you have a 2:2 there are large organisations including the government who take on graduates with 2:2. Sometimes it is just the online application tests that can get in the way if your score is not as high as other applicants. People with 2:1 may have more opportunities ie with job minimal requirements but they still have the same odds as you at getting a job as the competition is still large between graduates with 2:1. It is tough for everyone and most of my firends are completing their ACCA while the job market is still hard to get into.
My advise is to get what ever experience you can which is finance or accounts related even if it is with a 1 month job contract, or do more finance courses to become more qualified.

by Jimmy on 25 October 2013 18:23

I do feel for those who have mitigating circumstances where they got a 2.2 or 3rd. It does make getting a job a bit tougher but the bottom line is we are in a recession and too many people are going to university. The government has cocked up on that front by trying to properly educate our population when it makes competition for jobs harder. Even a 1st class honours will not guarantee you a job. So arguably I'd argue against the fact that graduates with a 2.2 are left out completely. I got the 2.1 and though I am working it is not in the area I would like to spend the majority of my career in and I can't even get direct work experience in that field despite writing to dozens of employers that I would work for free.

Before I got my current job I did agency work for 3 months and managed to pay the majority of a 2 grand overdraft back I'd accrued from uni. The work was boring and I found it unsettling and felt depressed moving from place to place every week but it keeps you busy. All I can say is those with a 2.2 don't feel too down about it. People with 1sts and 2.1s are finding it nearly as hard to get their foot in the door including myself. If we ever come out of this recession hopefully companies will stop being so picky. Sad fact is even if there are circumstances, employers judge a 2.2 or less as a lack of intelligence or commitment and there is not much that can be done about that

by Ken on 28 October 2013 19:25

The classification is a big deal only at the first round of selection - which is done by the HR. People in the HR are quite conservative (and want to play safe) and often do not understand business needs. We often get stupid CVs forwarded (we still get History or Geography grads from Oxford and Cambridge with no experience or demonstrated interest in what we do) and hear directly from applicants who got rejected because either they "failed competency questions" (people in business units still don't know what these things are) or "do not have required grades" (often A-level grades because they went to a school in a foreign country). Business units normally can force the HR to reconsider some applications if those applicants have contacts within. Don't worry about having a 2.2 - once you get through the initial round, no one really cares. It is (and will be) a big deal in accounting firms - that's just what they are and who they are. In accounting firms, procedure is everything. So you have a 2.2, you can't be an accountant at Big 4. Apart from that, if you want something in life, you will have find your way. When your time comes, you can shout at the HR all you like.

by Em on 29 October 2013 14:47

Hi Jerome,

Reading your comments about getting a 2.2 and then going on to get on to 2 grad schemes with your masters, actually inspired me to do the same. I've been in sales for the last year (which I did not like) and am now going to start at a market research firm so I can save some money until I start my masters in 'Management with International business'. The (high) 2.2 (so close to a 2.1) I received was in Biology from a Russell group university.

Do you have any more advice you can give to someone who is has been in a very similar position to you, but is determined to come back from it?

by John on 01 November 2013 19:27

Hi Em,

I myself had a 2.2 in Computer Science and worked in sales for a while. I am also doing my MSc part time but this isn't what got me my job. I got a job at a FTSE 100 engineering company based on my experience in corporate environment, my entrepreneurial skills (I tried various start-ups) and because I just didn't give up. I applied for a lot of jobs and even when people told me to give up trying I kept at it. My advice is to keep applying to the type of organisations you want to work in, understand the type of competencies they are looking for and develop them.

If you get into an interview, show them that you are an intelligent candidate that is interested in the type of work they do and show them how you can make a difference.

Above all, keep at it. Tenacity is a major asset in job hunting

by Concerned on 04 November 2013 09:59

I am proud to have worked hard for a 1st and gained a masters. After years of job hunting and applying to fill roles which I would find interesting or fulfilling (I realise you can't really get both these days), I settled for a job in a company I never wanted to work for (within oil and gas) and my enthusiam for science has been zapped. I have been there for 2.5 years, after a year out of work, hoping for better and constantly applying elsewhere. But I got a job, kept my head above water and am still holding out for something better/more fulflling. I think that is more the achievement these days; tenacity to keep looking without getting too depressed.

I worked very hard for 1st, so do not feel in any way sorry for those who gained less than a 2:1 (other than under extemuating circumstances). If those with aptitude and effort can not seem to get there, maybe the old thought that 'university for all' was somewhat misguided...we should focus on voction not education (so much). An aim of 50% to go to unversity?! We cannot sustain that nor be a nation of managers or supervisors (only 10-15% of roles). Not 50% of jobs and services in society need a degree.

On the point of a 1st, I have been told on a number of occasions that it would be better to gain a 2:1 due to the perception of better social and practical skills (by a BMW exec. and others). Great.

Congratulations though to all those who have made it with their degrees.

by Sleepless on 07 November 2013 18:53

I don't find your comment acceptable saying that a 2.2 means you don't have any good worth ethic at all. I probably wont achieve a 2.1 so that I can go on to do my doctorate because I work full time as a litigator working on high value cases, work part time as a charity volunteer and have been doing my OU degree in my "spare time" only managing to get up to about 68% which is not bad for skim reading! - does this mean I am work shy!? It doesn't mean that all students getting a 2.2 haven't worked hard, we are just spreading the hours we have in the day rather thinly to fit it all in! sleepless

by Ben on 20 November 2013 11:16

Work ethic takes somewhat of a back seat to passion later on anyway, at least in jobs that require people to think. Almost anyone can work on something they don't enjoy when they have to turn up to an office, there's a procedure in place and a lot of implicit social pressure. Almost anyone can do almost any job, if they have to - to some degree of competence.

The question is how well you'll work, and that has more to do with passion, managers, a good team fit, etc than it does with your ability to sit in front of something that bores you to tears. This even shows up in interviews 'Why do you want this job?' If you just say 'For the money' That's probably not a really great answer.

by J van der Westhuizen on 21 November 2013 12:50

I am a mature male of 42 who graduated in May 2013, after been made redundant it was advised to re-educate to improve your opportunity for work (not so). I also have a few disabilities and it took me 4 years to finish my degree and a lot of hard work to get a 2:2, to me it was the biggest achievement of my life but to the industry you are not clever enough or good enough for any job as you did not get a higher grade.

Apart from the fact that I was very disappointed with the quality of teaching I was shocked to see how much tutors actually cared about their job and the students not even to mention carrying about disabled students, I am sorry for those few individual lecturers that did actually care. If I knew what I was to go through while at uni I would never have mentioned my disability as it took more time and stress around organising things and being slapped down for being a nuisance student than not mentioning a disability.

A 2:2? You get a university certificate with a 2:2 grade on it which any grade under a 2:1 is basically a brand of someone that just messed around at uni, being lazy, taking uni as a party and being the one that is not so clever. Since I finished uni and started job hunting I realised no one wants to employ anyone with a grade lower than a 2:1 and no one ever seem to think than some students with a low grade did actually care, and work 10 times harder than any "normal" student to get that 2:2, they never seem to think about, the pain, the stress and long hours these students had to put in just to get a 2:2 and just maybe I am as competent as any other person to do the job and that I am just not so good at exams.

So now we sit with a £25000 - 30000 debt and 4 years of hard graft and suffering for absolutely nothing!!!!! As 99% for jobs are now advertised online and applications are dealt with online through special software you don't even get to explain that your 2:2 was actually achieved through tremendous hard work and only to get to the jobcentre to be told not to include your degree that you worked for so hard and paid so much money for on an application form?

So I ask you with tears in my eyes, what is going on? What are we suppose to do? where are we suppose to go? Give up?

by Martin on 29 November 2013 09:56

I came out of University with a 3rd class degree in financial management. To be honest I did not give University my full attention in the academic aspect...

I found that even looking at graduate schemes was generally a waste of time, as many required 1st class or 2:2. However it didn't deter me too much from applying. The general response was that I could pass the aptitude and mathematical assessments but when it came to 'grades' I did not meet the criteria (some even wanting certain UCAS points). So as expected my application was automatically thrown aside with many others.

I had spent time at University doing 4 (unpaid) placements ranging from a week to a couple of months in certain places, to try and experience various roles. These included a small accountancy firm, a financial magazine, finance department in a fashion company, and a marketing company.

I was offered positions with two of these companies however due to location i had to decline. However what I had was some brief experience in those industries, some industry contacts and finally some reliable references.

I know its difficult to find time and even difficult to get accepted on a unpaid placement but its a great way of showing future employers that you are keen enough to do something for free.

My first employer did not even care about my degree as I had some of the skills they required already, which gave me an automatic 'foot in the door'

by Jill on 01 December 2013 09:36

I do not understand how people can compare a first with a 2:2. In order to get a first it takes a lot more comitment to your work, patients, and a lot more time. I have had two jobs since graduating in 2012, neither in the field I studied, however one for £32k with a multinational company, purely on the fact I got a first. I have been declined from every grad scheme I applied due to lack of experience. I have worked since I was 15, volunteered and have a very high academic record. I have since left employment and got a PhD studentship for 3 years. Yes when I leave it will be even more difficult with another 3 years of graduates to contend with, but I hope to gain relevant work experience during my PhD.

If you want to get where you want with your degree sometimes you need to change your method if the first one doesnt work. I tried for 18 months to find a job or grad scheme that I wanted to do with no luck. Now Ive moved to the other end of the country for a PhD. Hopefully this will work out.

You have to remember your not just contending with graduates, your contending with people who have lost their jobs during the recession, and employers dont have the time or money to spend months training graduates.

by Jan van der Westhuiz on 02 December 2013 10:04

just to remind you again, just because we got a 2:2 does not mean we just sat back and played with our thumbs, we are looking at people with disabilities that most probably worked twice as hard just to get a 2:2 (myself with various disabilities compared to my student colleagues, I spent more time indoors studying than they did partying away and getting a first, and this was in between work too, getting up at 6 in the morning and going to bed at 2-3am for 4 years) what about those (as on my course) that had a bad life and ended up on the doll with kids to support and then went back to uni to get themselves out of that hole to improve their lives and the kids live that ended up with a 2:2? Students that ended up with a 1st are not the only people that had to work their backsides off!! And now we are being discriminated against with a 2:2 because apparently people with a 2:2 or lower are lazy buggers, no company looks at a 2:2 and think about the stress, heartache, pain, long hours or suffering we had to go through to get to a 2:2. Just remember we congratulate you on your 1st and your bursary for a PHd but please don't discriminate against us as you don't know the background.

by patricia on 03 December 2013 14:29

Some of us work really hard but never seem to get the grades. I don't think it's fare to write people off as having low intelligence. Look at the Milliband brothers. David got a first and Ed got a lower degree than his brother and yet...

by Jill on 03 December 2013 18:43

I was not discriminating against anyone. I have had an illness for majority of my life and I also had to take 2 months out of my final year due to other external factors. I made sure this did not affect my degree and the years of hard work. I was not discriminating against anyone, you are correct you dont know peoples background. The fact is employers have to have a process to gain the best employees. I could not get graduate employment in my field due to my lack of relevant work experience. I was trying to state that sometimes you have to try alternative methods to get where you want to be in life. A 2:2 is not the end of the world. My sister got a 2:2 and graduated in 2009, throughout her degree she did placements, volunteered, and gained the relevant work experience. She is the youngest ever manager in her department due to the extra work she put in, as well as having a child. She did this all on her own, off her own back with no external help. Sometimes it is a case of luck and hoping someone will take a chance on you. Truth is dont give up and one day it will work out.

by Philip on 08 December 2013 17:42

I studied Accountancy and Finance graduating with a 2:2 and after 400 applications 10 online tests and only a couple of interviews, I now have a job working in an accountancy practice. So that is proof that 1st 2:1 AND 2:2 can get jobs in this climate doing what they really want to do you just have to keep looking. How long agong did this all happen I hear you ask, well I start this Monday!
Sure I have work experience for banks and insurance companies but not doing accounting. I proved in the interview that I am dedicated to working for and staying with this company and not moving on after a couple of years. I am willing to learn and progress.
I think the main secret is to not look straight at the large companies for a job because they have more seats in the building, but to look at the smaller companies as they have the time to be more personal and give you the options to learn different skills over a natural time and not forced to cram everything in within a few weeks.

STUDENTS WITH 2:2 YOU CAN DO IT.....I DID.

by Vincenzo Politi on 11 December 2013 18:52

Finding a good job nowadays is really hard. However, one thing is having a 2:2 degree, another thing is being an awfully bad speller. First impression is everything and if your cover letters are like this post, then I am not surprised you don't get any interview.
A friendly advice: look after every single detail of your applications. Details matter.

by Phil on 12 December 2013 19:21

My post was typed quickly on my mobile which I'm sure everyone has experienced the frustrations of missing a key or tapping across two keys. Stop being a wally!
You don't type your cv or cover letter on your mobile predictive text was never a problem. But for foreign student you should get wording checked if not familiar with English language etc.

by J on 12 December 2013 19:36

I can't believe Vincenzo wasted his time typing that!!!! Why do people on this site or any site such a waste of constructive space.

Good work Phil it gives us all hope that 2:2 grads can find a relevant job this day and age. Just a shame there are a few people who live in gloom and only want to share their gloom their probably working a rubbish job after their degree and feel hard done by by the job market or the degree they studied.

by Tannethjay on 18 December 2013 11:50

Hi there,
I have just finished my University degree, I am 20 and should graduate in march with an Economics Bsc honors. I am extremely glad I came across these stream of messages, since I am worried I will come out with a 2.2; although I was predicted a 2.1. I would also like to extend some of the earlier messages claiming that having a 2.2 beens that a graduate is "intellectually incapable". Firstly, I am 20, have just finished university having two exam periods having to deal with organising family funerals since my family are out of the country. 2. I finished high school with 360 Ucas points in IB, where the last year of my schooling had 40% of the school down with glandular fever, meaning plenty of sub-teachers who had no experience of teaching IB. 3. I had no IGCSE's under C's and I took 9 IGCSE's. Lastly I speak English and French fluently, my home language is Afrikaanse (barely used any more since I am British now) and currently learning Japanese. So considering this as a brief summary of my academic life, adding onto that are extracular activities including being grade 6 at flute and opera, would you consider me "Intellectually lacking".... It's absolutely not about a degree anymore or having work experience. According to a graduate company that visited our university recently (not calling any names out here) said that the major companies, taking in graduates already have ONE THIRD of the places already booked in place for graduates who have preciously interned with them or have done a work placement. Unfortunately, I have a flat to be paying off next year so can not afford to intern or volunteer for free. There are companies who will consider any degree and programme to enter and then you can move on after to work your way up the ladder. It takes a little more time, but there are ways. Again, thanks for this stream of posts it has given me more confidence!!1

by Matt on 08 January 2014 16:37

The common misconception throughout this whole forum is that a 2:2 is deemed insufficient to get onto a graduate scheme. Wrong. With very little work experience as well I too worried that with this degree classification I wouldn't find a job. I have applied for a few graduate schemes and in many I find myself at the latter stages of the process (Morrisons as an example). Sell yourself, yes a first degree classification is very impressive but far too many people automatically assume they are better than others and have a disgusting attitude towards it.

Regarding any degree classification that is achieved pat yourself on the back, most people get the degree that they deserve and worked hard for, some people aren't academically minded yet still manage three years of study and gain a 2:2, lets not forget this is an achievement. Many people that are currently employed do not have degrees, in fact some have very few gcse's.

The point I am trying to make is that eventually graduates with lower degree classifications will find jobs, they may even find jobs before the academically sound 1:1 achievers. Do not feel disheartened by rejection letters, nobody will get accepted by every job they apply for.

And remember, you don't take your degree classification to the grave, put your mind too it and you have no limits, don't stress and enjoy life.

Good luck

by James Dean on 09 January 2014 16:55

I think for those getting a 2:2 or lower you should spend less time on this types of discussion boards and study.

Simple.

by Kayleigh on 14 January 2014 15:59

Are there any Fashion/Creative Arts graduates out there who also got 2:2?

I am a recent graduate who specialised in Footwear and Accessories, only three Universities in the country have this course as an option. I am applying for design and other related jobs, I get people contacting me but nothing happens. One thing that puzzles me is why does the grade matter in a creative subject? It's not academic it's creative and with creativity it is where you are as a designer.
Don't get me wrong I come from both an academic and creative background but I chose the creative pathway because that's what I have strength in. Everyone is different not everyone can do what others can. 1:1, 2:1, 2:2 or 3 shouldn't matter what matters is where your working level is at now and you will always be learning throughout the whole of your life. My advice is don't give up, be determined and show employers what others can't show.

by John on 16 January 2014 14:55

I'm a student with prior work experience. I'm on to get a First - and I can honestly say - it's through extremely hard work. I attend every lecture without fail and I put 100% into everything I do. I study 7-8 hours per day during term time and I study 3-4 hours a day during the holidays. I know many 2:2 students, but one stands out in particular. Picture this: She's 21, never worked in her life. Never had a paper-round, never done anything. Went to school, sixth form, then dropped out of college to come to University.

This girl does the absolute BARE MINIMUM. She's in her 3rd year, doesn't know how to reference material properly, her average grade is anywhere from 45-55%. I offered her free personal tuition, which we'd do via Skype. More often than not, she'd make excuses such as: "I've got chores" or "My mums car has a problem, I need to go with her to the mechanics". You name the excuse, she's said it.

Now, like I said, I'm in my final term and she's looking to finish with a 2:2. She does no personal study, makes excuses and hands in horrifically sub-standard work (I know, because I've seen it). Now, I can just about understand you people saying: "Not all 2:2 students are like that!". You might not be, but alot are. The only reason she is getting a 2:2 is because in the 2nd year, I was in a group with her and got a First, which bumped her up from a 3rd to a 2:2.

All in all, a 2:2 is nothing like a first. You'd have to be deluded to even think such a thought. A 2:2 shows that you don't know/understand the subject as well as somebody who got a First. It's as simple as that. There really is NO excuse.

by Ola on 20 January 2014 10:17

You fool can't even spell incompetent properly yet you have the nerve to think your hard work got you 1.1

Keep going guys and don't read trash from this fool who think so highly of himself but discourages others for not getting a 1.1

It is obvious the job market is flooded with graduates just find a way to stand out, after all success is not measured in academic terms. Many 2.2 graduates have been very successful in their careers. It is tough, it is hard, it is difficult yet it is possible - YES YOU CAN!

Good luck to you all

by Ola on 20 January 2014 16:22

You are a STAR! I really like your attitude, your comments and words of encouragement to others. Life is not about degree classifications but making success out of nothing. Richard Branson employs lots of graduates yet he did not even go to university so what are we talking about here????

The recession brought significant change to "graduate labour market" hence the need for employers to raise the bar but this does not mean that one cannot get a job, it just gets harder. Most business men that did not go to university are intelligent enough to start a business, expand it and go global. Getting a grad job does not make you successful as we have too many educated fools running errands for the likes of Richard Branson, Jay Z, Puff Daddy, David Beckham just to name but a few.

Even a £100,000 per annum job will not make a massive difference to your life not to talk of £27000 top of the scale salary for graduates, who after many years on the job don't really have anything to live for despite 1.1, 2.1 or 2.2

To be successful in life you need motivation, determination, dedication and the willingness to succeed though there will be many challenges, obstacles and hindrances along the way but do not despair just keep at it - Albert Einstein, the man who invented electricity failed over seven hundred times before he got it right - honestly how many times have you failed???

Interestingly, failures are part of success! 1st class, 2.1, 2.2 or 3rd class just move on and stop living in your past. You have worked very hard, you have done your best, yet providence worked against you, so what ??? If 2.2 or 3rd class stops you dreaming then you are a failure forever indeed!

Degree classifications should not stop you making success out of your failures - all you need to do is learn from your mistakes and move on. Many would want to ridicule you and make you feel second class or worthless but you alone can stop them getting at you. Keep applying for jobs, stay relevant, keep up the fight, the struggle and above all be optimistic - you will surely get there one day, as only the persistent ones survives the hurdles of life!

Good luck to all 1.1, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd class and even passes but please do not slant others!

by James_St on 20 January 2014 16:28

I am afraid that in many ways John is speaking the truth about the nature of Higher Education In the UK today. Although I understand that certain individuals have circumstantial issues which may have prevented them from achieving a 1st or 2:1, however in my experience this is a minority. It would be foolish to believe that those achieving anything up to 20-30% less in their respective courses than someone who achieved a higher grade can argue they have an equal understanding or talent in that given academic subject. The reason for this underachievement can be varied, and as we can see on this forum alone, there is many reasons as to why one achieves their final grade at University. If you had mitigating circumstances, struggle in academic essay writing, or simply didn't put the effort in, it is likely you have less understanding than someone who achieved a high tier grade. I empathise with those who were unfortunate and maybe had a difficult period whilst at University for one reason or another, but we cannot let this detract from the fact that the majority of people who received a lower grade did so because they were lazy. Many, Many students unfortunately do not make the most of their opportunities, and I would find it hard to believe anyone who can honestly say they gave 100% all of the time into their studies, however there is a difference between slacking off sometimes and simply not putting the required effort in. Everyone who goes to University has a certain degree or intelligence, so I am sure they know themselves if they have done themselves justice in the end!

Basically, it is wrong to say those who attain a better grade are no better than those who didn't, because 90%+ of the time they are academically better. Those who really tried to their best ability and achieved say a 2:2 or lower are in the small minority. Those who do better at University are largely those who have: attended more lectures/seminars, spent longer on essays/revision and also pushed themselves to succeed over those who accept mediocre results. This doesn't mean they sat in all day/night reading or revising, but it does mean they knew when work has to be done and the level of balance needed between their studies and the rest of their lives.

Certain people may disagree with this post, but I am sure that the scenarios I have discussed will relate to thousands of graduates, current students across the country.

If you find the correct balance and understand where you need to be it is not impossible to achieve a great University Degree whilst still finding plenty of time to be with friends/family and leaving your university work to the back of your mind for a while.

I graduated in 2012 with a 2:1 BSc and went on to complete my MSc a year later with Merit. I have now worked in a graduate role within the relevant industry for 6 months. I am 22 years old and only had 3 months industry experience before securing this role.

by Krista on 20 January 2014 16:43

Dear " Left Out of The Game",
<br />
<br /> I too just recently graduated last Nov. with a 2:2 ( in Psychological Sciences)... I too have applied for 100's of jobs, without luck & am now even considering joining the Army or Naval Reserves, because I am 43 yrs "young".. I am classed as "too old" for normal service & I find it to be extremely frustrating,..I don't know what's going on with employers, but I do feel discriminated against, over-qualified or they want an MSc !! As I want to work in therapy...which currently doesn't require a "special licence"... I was recommended to start my own web-site & do my own thing, make my own luck... so to speak. Have Faith...all challenges happen for a reason !!

by James_St on 20 January 2014 16:47

I wrote the above post on my phone whilst on the train so apologies for any spelling/grammar errors. I know people like to pick other up on this type of thing to satisfy their intellectual ego's, so I thought Ide clear that up before anyone else does.

by Shay on 06 February 2014 20:01

We'll peeps, here's something to cheer you all up....

Graduated 2009 with First Class Hons in Business...after 3 years of temping warehouse jobs and dole finally got my first grad job in 2012, 6 months later company goes BUST!

Since then I'm back to humping heavy boxes around, data entry and other minimum wage temp jobs. In the last five years I've had promises, BS and more BS. My Degree means zilch to employers. Even my work experience and good references count for nothing. I was earning more wages in 2001 than I do now...I've been reading my old wage slips!

I can't support my family, and I'm now in my thirties. So if you think that you're feeling "left out of the game", trust me you are not the only one!

Next month I'm leaving the UK. I will never return to this abysmal island, and I look forward to making my life away from this sinking ship.

by Steve on 09 February 2014 10:32

Hey all

To almost buck the trend, I got a 2:2 (I have a pair of them if truth be known) and I got onto a graduate scheme at the first attempt. It's a government one, but there are potentially the jobs out there. I know this doesn't really help anyone, but it's to show that some people do get 2:2s and have a career!

by Tom on 10 February 2014 10:00

I will be graduating in the summer of 2014 with a 2:2 degree and I will not sleep until I have found myself a job. I currently work 30 plus hours a week as well as playing sport as well as attending all my lectures and seminars and also volunteering for a student charity (and yes I do have a girlfriend and a social life also); I simply believe it is how determined you are to succeed.

Without sounding too cocky or arrogant I know for a fact I will get a job after I graduate, if you want it that bad then you will get it, anything is achievable with self belief and determination.

by Tom on 10 February 2014 10:16

And John Luton, I will be achieving a 2:2 through nothing but hard work, I study and read all day every day but only achieve high 50% grades and low 60% grades at best (with the odd exception of higher) overall I am averaging a 2:2 but this is not through laziness and lack of dedication.

I genuinely believe the academic path of university was not for me and that I was forced down this path as were a lot of my friends, if I could go back I would have definitely not pursued a degree.

I believe that however hard some work they will never be as high achievers in academia as some who are naturally bright. However I would like to point out that I consider myself to have a well rounded lifestyle and many many life experiences that the average student definitely does not have. Although I may not have the qualifications on paper that people with a 2:1 or 1:1 do have, I have made up for this as I have been in non stop work from a young age and have built up experience in my years at university.

Overall you should not put those down who obtain a 2:2 just because of personal experience of 'lazy' students. I will always be hard working and dedicated as an individual and this will stand out to employers more than those who have obtained higher than a 2:2 but lack character and experience.

All the best to all of you looking for graduate opportunities, anything is possible.

by Real skills on 10 February 2014 13:03

Platitudes on how much more intelligent you are than everyone else whilst including two spelling mistakes in 5 sentences.

Get off this forum and stop being ridiculous when it is for those who obtained a 2:2 to whine not for some egomaniacal dolt to brag on the very little that you have achieved.

" cmcguire, hants » 17 April 2012 18:34

Yes it should matter what grade you get.
I worked very hard to get a first in all my units, why should someone who either didn't put
as much effort in, or is not as intelligent, have the same opportunities as me?

You get out what you put in. Mess up uni and what do you expect?
Either you should have worked harder or you're simple not as good as me, and employers
should get the best candidates.

For the record, I got a 25k job before I'd even graduated for my hard work at only 21 with
no experience.
Work harder next time, or don't set your heights so high if you are incompetant. "

by The real skills on 10 February 2014 13:06

Chloe, Cambridge » 18 April 2012 10:30

Great comment until you told everyone they will succeed, most people won't, come to terms with that first then begin.

by Jimmy on 10 February 2014 18:28

I have a 2:1 from the University of Liverpool, have work experience and I still cannot find a job. Even Waitrose turned me down for a call centre job when I have worked in Customer Service for 2 years. I want to go travelling and teach abroad for a couple of months to develop my skills, but I dont know if teaching is for me otherwise I would consider a TEFL course. Not to mention my girlfriend would kill me if I left the UK for that long without her being able to come with me!

Now regarding graduate jobs there just is not a high demand for graduates in general, let alone those who did not get 2:1's of 1st's. All I can find is warehouse work, emptying bins or cleaning jobs on minimum wage and I have declined them and decided to sign on instead because I feel too embarrassed to do jobs like that with a good degree from a Russell Group university. In fact I don't think any graduate should work for £6.31 an hour.

In London there are more jobs that there use to be, but the problem is I have 100-150 applicants applying alongside me and there is always someone with more experience. It is very disheartening.

by Grace on 17 February 2014 15:45

I'm the same. I have a 2:1 from University of Exeter and I've worked since I was 16. I worked all the time alongside university as a sales person in a phone store whilst all my other friends didn't work at all, just studied. I have an internship which I'm doing until April but I've been applying for hundreds of graduate jobs for after this. This doesn't really count for anything though.. I've tried everything, I apply for so many jobs, it takes hours and hours- but I don't get anything. It is a shame! I've also had interviews but often don't even receive a response afterwards.But I don't think you should be embarrassed to do those jobs because a lot of us are in the same position. It's just the way it is, and you will look much MUCH better to a prospective employer if you are working (even if it is any rubbish job) than if you are unemployed. What if you are in an interview and you are asked 'what are you doing now?' - surely you will feel embarassed to say you are doing nothing! It will look so much better to say you are doing something- even if it is in a shop, there are skills you will learn like customer service and teamwork which are valuable.

by Jimmy on 18 February 2014 09:38

I agree with you Grace. I am volunteering working helping teachers in a primary school for a day a week, I may make this 2 days (16 hours) as I enjoy it and gets me out of the house. The reality degrees seem to mean very little now. Non-graduate seeking employers don't understand the value of a degree. I have an interview for Coral Betting in September and they did not even know how university works or what skills you develop. They were dismayed and unimpressed when I mentioned my degree in an interview even though 40% of young people have one now. Hopefully the 9k a year tuition fees will put more people going to university so in a few years there will be less competition for graduate schemes. I am thinking of using savings let in their will to me from deceased relatives over the years to fund a masters if I still can't find a job by this time next year. Employers look for a postgraduate for what I want to do unless I am lucky and someone recruits me straight off which is rare but it happens.

by John on 18 February 2014 14:56

Great posts by Jimmy + Grace - they touch on an interesting topic: Universities in the UK are saturated with students and with thousands of people applying for graduate schemes, it's not surprising if you don't hear back from some.

Regarding the comment quoted below from Tom, Wolverhampton:

"And John Luton, I will be achieving a 2:2 through nothing but hard work, I study and read all day every day but only achieve high 50% grades and low 60% grades at best (with the odd exception of higher) overall I am averaging a 2:2 but this is not through laziness and lack of dedication."

I find it very difficult to believe you study and read "all day every day" but only achieve "high 50% grades and low 60% grades". If that's the case - you're studying wrong. If you aren't getting ANY First class grades, or struggling to hit even a 2:1, you have to question whether that subject/path/career is really for you. That's the cold, hash reality.

"Overall you should not put those down who obtain a 2:2 just because of personal experience of 'lazy' students. I will always be hard working and dedicated as an individual and this will stand out to employers more than those who have obtained higher than a 2:2 but lack character and experience."

I'm not saying that YOU personally don't work hard, but the vast majority of people who achieve 2:2's don't work hard. So unfortunately, you're in a category with the people who 'CBA'.

Employers want the full package. They want First/2:1 degrees; motivated people with work experience. If you have character and experience, that's great, so does my dog, but unless you have a First class or 2:1 degree to go with it, then you're out of luck.

With that being said - I've applied to a bunch of graduate schemes and I got knocked back. For instance, I applied to Lidl's Area Manager grad scheme, but they emailed a polite 'no'. The problem is, there is so much competition out there, employers CAN afford to be fussy. Don't be so sure that a 2:2 is good, because employers absolutely do NOT think that way. Same for First Class students, if you're first class but lack work experience, it's going to be hard for you too. It's a tough market out there.

Good luck everyone.

by Neil on 20 February 2014 11:51

Yes,

I received a first class engineering degree in 2012 and went to work and travel around Australia for a year. I gained lots of work experience, but none directly relevant to engineering.
I consider myself a fairly interesting person, president of the sky diving society, climbed kilimanjaro etc, I assumed with a good degree it wouldn't be hard to atleast bag myself an interview.

This really isn't the case, it seems without relevant work experience, even if the employer doesn't require work experience, if they receive applications with experience, they'll take them over me any day.

Looking for jobs is like a job in itself, searching and applying from 9 - 6 every day. So guys, if you got a 2:2 and aren't having much luck, dont worry, I got a 1st and aren't having much luck either.

But hey, stay positive, somethings got to come up eventually. I look at some people who got graduate jobs and I just think, if they can do it there's no excuse.

Perseverance guys. Anyway, I should probably get off this and get back to applying. Good luck everyone.

by Alex on 09 March 2014 15:45

The majority of these comments are so tiresome to read; students with 2.2s listing off their individual circumstances to justify their result. If you have a extenuating circumstances then that's fine, and you should be able to explain this during the application process. Not a problem.

But the reality is that these are a tiny minority of 2.2 students, and all the comments here make it sound like it is the norm. 99% of 2.2 students put in little effort or are simply not academically able. I don't understand why some of you argue that a degree classification is not a good indicator of intelligence. Of course it is! Yes, there will of course be a few exceptions but the majority of "intelligent" people will have a strong academic background. Surprise, surprise! Exams test how you interpret, problem solve and analyse information.

Now to those who have 2.1s ands 1sts. Getting those grades do not give you the automatic right to a job, but more importantly it gives you the opportunity to apply for one. The rest is down to you. If you have a 1st or 2.1 from a reputable uni, then you should have NO problem securing an interview. Once you get to that stage it is solely down to how you come across and perform at these stages.

I consider myself as a very average graduate on paper. 2.1 from an average uni, 320 UCAS points, one internship from an SME and member of my uni's 2nds Rugby team. I have had no issues with being able to get to at least the telephone interview stages as I took the time in my application forms and researched the company. Once you get to that stage, none of your academics or even experience matters, but just how well you interview and tackle group tasks etc. Therefore it is your personality.

I've always had the view that if you are good enough, you will land a graduate job. If you are an unemployed 2.1 or 1st graduate, I would look at how you interview and address your technique, as there are no excuses to not get past the application filter.

by Charlie on 10 March 2014 15:49

My daughter went to a not very brilliant local comprehensive and left with the top results from that school. She set her sights high and got into a Russell Group university to study biology. She worked hard but got a 2:2 She is now unemployed I fear she is getting depressed and I don't know how to help or advise her. In my day if you went to uni you got a job, if you went to a good uni you got a better job. She feels friends who didn't go or those that went to lesser unis and did less academic degrees are better off. Any ideas how I can help her?

by Ryan West on 10 March 2014 16:17

Hi Charlie,

I'm really sorry to hear about your daughters situation and I felt inclined to respond as I have some experience in the Recruitment sector.

To put it simply, a 2.2 is far from the end of the world. Many employers (especially the smaller companies) aren't hugely concerned with degree grade and actually concentrate more on experience, or subject, or personality etc. There are a lot of different factors to whether somebody gets a job or not.

The larger Top 100 companies do often discard 2.2 applications instantly - so I would tell her to focus more on smaller companies - who are much more flexible.

It's always best to take baby steps when someone feels a bit overwhelmed and stressed with unemployment, so start simple. Does she have an idea of what type of thing she wants to do?

by Kam on 11 March 2014 17:32

Completely Agree with your comments. I have obtained a 1st Class and whilst applying to various graduate positions i have ethier been turned down as i dont have AAB or higher in my alevels or dont meet ucas points or i have gone to the final stages of an interview and the employers seem to have a different agenda. My sound dispointing for people with 2:2 but i guess we all in the same boat someway or another. ethier its your classification or your dont have ucas or alevel or experience. Catch 22 cant win both ways lol

by Charlie on 11 March 2014 18:50

Thanks for your reply Ryan, she really enjoyed the ecology part of her biology course so something to do with the environment, animals, outdoors. Doesn't really want to work in a lab. She is trying to keep all options open. She is lucky enough to get a few days a week in a local shop, she has worked there since 16 but obviously not related to what she wants to do at all. It just seems so hard that these youngsters have put in such a lot of effort for so little result.

by M Soni on 19 March 2014 11:15

I have read a few comments and feel obliged from older experience to say the following: There is nothing wrong with any degree anyone has. Everyones circumstances are individual.Depending on your field grades may matter. I agree being purely academic with a first doesnt mean you will be a natural in a work environment because life skills and have a rounded personality are hugely important. Do they teach you communication skills at Uni? as thats the ticket to writing applications, speaking and presenting yourself in that small interview pocket of time. Experience does matter, but it can then become a hindrance as when you are older you become expensive. As a graduate right now you are cheap, so you are desirable over an older more expensive applicant. Try playing on that. You need to show drive and proactive behaviour react to what is in front of you and dont rely on a document to open doors. Thats the real secret. Employers will look at the document but after they have taken their measure of you first. Make the first impression count!

by Jimmy on 19 March 2014 22:29

Well I agree with M Soni's post. I have a 2:1 from a Russell Group University and I am still struggling to find work. Even work experience is hard to gain. I have had to shelf all my travelling plans due to agency's cutting down on the work they offer me and now I have been forced to sign on for the first time in my life. Sadly uni degrees mean bugger all nowadays and don't demonstrate your ability to be a good employee.

by James on 23 March 2014 08:51

A 2:1 and high UCAS points do mean a lot now. They get you past the first stage of the application process.

I am a qualified accountant, a qualified Certified Fraud Examiner and am currently doing a Masters Degree. I can't even get a job because I have a 2:2 degree, I don't have enough UCAS points or don't have the experience. All the money and time on gaining qualifications to show that you are capable of doing the work doesn't mean anything if you have a 2:2.

by Rachel on 13 May 2014 10:11

Ahhhh! I'm coming up to the end of my degree and I'm defo going to get a 2.2.

What do I do?!? I've found this thread useful in terms of support but has anyone got any practical/ actionable advice?

I need a job ASAP!

All help appreciated.

Rachel

by Andrey on 13 May 2014 22:46

I got a 2:2 from Newcastle in Law and had no joy with training contracts so I switched to looking for any grad schemes with a 2:2. Theres quite a few. I managed to get on to a government accountancy scheme and am now studying ACCA and getting decent work experience at the same time. May be getting an external placement with PWC in september. Not my dream career but in a competitive world like today not everyone can do what they want. I dont even really know what my dream job would be.

Advice:

Make a list of 2:2 grad schemes.
Get great at applications, psychometric tests, and assessment centres.
Get any job in the meantime and dont sit on your arse waiting for the good one. Get a work ethic.
Apply apply apply and never give up. I was at the end of my tether but just kept applying and eventually succeeded. Anyone with a 2:2 can. Good luck!

by Elena on 17 May 2014 12:29

I have a 2:2 with mitigating circumstances, held 3 jobs during my undergrad, doing a masters on track to get a 1st. Did law in both UG and PG, got an internship with one of the best London law firms with a potential for a job offer.

2:2 is not the end of the world, if you can show that you can get better grades and show why you did not achieve a higher mark + a variety of interesting part time jobs and a bit of luck you will be ok.

If you have a 2:2 and you did not work during uni, don't have any experience in the field you want to go into, language skills or mitigating circumstances, you definitely should adjust your expectations and start with smaller firms and try to work your way up.

by sepehr on 23 May 2014 18:39

Hello
You mentioned that you have one bachelor and master too,I'm facing same problem and I see after my efforts because of some illnesses I'm getting 2:2 at the end which is so disappointing. I'm wondering if I do a master, would the consider my last degree (Master) or still need my undergraduate degree?
The feeling that I have to carry my degree whole my life and being judged is so upsetting, I believe we should always have a chance to compensate things.
Please kindly let me know if master can compensate my degree?( maybe if latest degree is checked always?)

Thanks

by D on 25 May 2014 13:22

Just revisiting this thread after following it for a few months last year whilst I was graduating / in the process of applying for jobs. I wasn't exactly in the same boat as some of you but had had some difficulties in the past and was certainly what might have been deemed a 'non-standard' applicant for a lot of graduate jobs.

Just to give you some background; I'm in my early thirties now. Got through to the final year of university but didn't really take it seriously; partied too much, didn't work hard enough and was on course for a 2:2 then split up with my girlfriend which was the final straw which broke the camel's back. I quit, didn't even graduate and moved back in with my folks in my home town, picking up a string of dead end customer service and low end credit control / admin jobs over the next four or five years until one day, spurred on by my new girlfriend, I decided to finish the final year of my course through Open University and began to look for graduate jobs at the same time.

I was 30 at this point, based a long way from London, expecting a 2:2 degree from the OU and with a difficult uni past to explain away; suffice to say, I really wasn't expecting much at this point but wanted to finish the degree for my own personal satisfaction and at least try and look for some more fulfilling, challenging work. Then, the company I worked for announced we were all being made redundant in August and with jobs becoming ever more scarce where I live, the pressure was on in earnest.

Now, at this point I should say I had a stroke of luck; it turns out that the OU's awarding process is to take into account credits gained at previous institutions but not your grades, basing the degree classification they award you solely on the work you did with them. I had 300 credits on my previous uni transcript, but some disappointing grades, and completed a further 120 with OU (the minimum they let you study is 120 for a year) As my work ethic had improved significantly (I'd always been quite strong academically but lazy), the standard of my work for OU was much higher and I comfortably gained a 2:1.

Buoyed by this, I started to think I might have half a chance and immediately set my sights a bit higher than before and set about applying for grad schemes at bigger firms as I now had a degree to match my 320 UCAS points which meant I could at least get past the application filter for some good grad jobs. However as this was already April and the OU has periodic graduation ceremonies, I wouldn't actually receive my degree certification until some months later and, as grad schemes for the year were mostly filled up already and I had until August to find a new job, I would have to make do with little more than a print out to prove my credentials at interview stage. Also, none of this would change the flunking uni fiasco; I was still concerned about having to explain that away at some point. Not to mention my age; I'd been told by countless people to give up on the grad scheme idea as they look for younger people but, being based in a small Midlands town and unable to move on (my by this point fiancé runs a small business there) I couldn't really see any other option to land a viable long-term career.

Anyway, to cut a long-story short, I went for it anyway and after swinging and missing a couple of times, I identified pretty much the only Birmingham graduate scheme with places left at that point (which turned out to be with a very well known professional services firm), went for it, got through the four stage interview process and, to my surprise and despite everything, landed a job in Assurance and am now well on the way to gained a Chartered Accountancy qualification.

My advice to those of you who haven't just sailed through uni with no complications and are concerned about the future:

Believe it or not, degree classifications are not everything. They might open the door but won't be the clincher. Similarly, no one gives a toss if you helped gorillas in Africa on your Gap year or were president of the debating society; these are just fillers for people with no work experience on their CV. What does matter are so called 'soft skills'; can you answer the phone politely? Is the standard of your written English in emails and letters high? Are you confident enough to chat comfortably to a visiting client, sit them down and offer them a cup of tea without having to be told? These things are all far more important when it comes to the day to day realities of work than what degree you got so to that end;

- never turn down work because you think it's beneath you. You won't realise it at the time but the experience you gain at even what may seem like the lowliest job is invaluable. It means you're more at ease in the workplace than some jumped up 21 year old who's never done a day's work in their life but got straight As. This counts for a lot, particularly in a client facing job.

- there's a second element to the above, as follows; employers want to see a grafter so big gaps on your CV where you've been 'looking for the right job' are a no-no. Even if it means stacking shelves, do whatever you can to make sure you're working. Provided you have the right attitude, every day you spend working is making you more employable. I know people who've gone into grad schemes, 5, 6 or more years after graduation just because they wanted a career change. Experience is extremely valuable, so if you don't succeed first time around, take that call centre job and have a go next year.

- Furthermore, to create the right impression on a potential employer, you need to be in the right frame of mind. Sitting at home all day in front of the computer endlessly applying for jobs is not the best preparation. I'm not even sure that volunteering is really; you need to be in a work frame of mind to land a good job (in my view at least)

- competition is not really that high. Despite what they tell you at school and uni and what the numbers say, many firms struggle to recruit the right people. There may well be hundreds of people applying for each job but the standard of a lot of UK graduate, even those who get 2:1s, from a professional perspective is dire. This is even more so outside of London so look for jobs in the other regional centres and work on soft skills, personal presentation, don't make any silly mistakes on the application and put what you learned out in the real world to good use.

- YOUR BAGGAGE IS YOUR BAGGAGE AND NOBODY ELSE'S. Don't assume that interviewers will pick up on what you perceive to be your flaws and the gaps in your CV. Present yourself confidently and don't dwell on your hang-ups. In the end, I made a brief mention of my leaving uni without graduating the first time for 'personal reasons' in my application and no one ever even asked me about it.

- YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BY APPLYING so aim high and, if you have to, bend the truth. Many top firms will say on their application portals that they will review all applications, even if you don't have the right qualifications so put a speculative application in, and make sure it's bang on and you genuinely never know. If you come across one that has an automatic filter that removes 2:2s (usually identifiable by some kind of pre-questionnaire on the application form) say 2:1. What's the worst that can happen? You don't get the job? So you've lost nothing and, provided you give a frank explanation if asked that you were desperate for a chance and believe you're good enough, you may even impress them with your resourcefulness.

- If you get a chance, grab it with both hands. Don't think that just getting a good night's sleep and wearing a smart suit is enough; research the company, research the industry, prepare answers to topics. Browse wikijobs; employers know people post details of their interview questions on line so they expect you to nail it. I put in literally hours of research for all the interviews I did and it paid off in spades.

- The flip side to all this is some people really are just that bright. In amongst the numpties with no life skills there will be people with no experience who will sail through on the strength of their academic prowess alone. Don't get bitter about this; it's just reality. Some people get firsts for a reason and will do well regardless. They're just playing to their strengths though, make sure you play to yours.

- Milk your contacts and get all the advice you possibly can. In my case, I had a family member who had been through something similar and a senior colleague who had worked in recruitment for many years. Both of their advice was invaluable; don't be afraid to ask and, most importantly, listen to their advice; don't get touchy if someone tells you you're doing something wrong.

- Finally, don't give up and don't even consider failure. If you come at this from the standpoint that the economy's screwed, there's no chances for graduates and you're doomed to a life on the dole then you may as well not bother. Visualise yourself getting the phone call to tell you you got the job and focus on that; it worked for me. Also, I was fortunate to have a very supportive partner and family around me. I know not everyone will have these things but if you do, lean on them. Remember that every job interview you fail is just preparation for the next one you're going to nail. I really mean that; no interview experience is wasted.

Anyway, apologies for that long tract. I just wanted to share my experiences with you and maybe put a positive spin on things. I know some of you will be saying 'but you got a 2:1', but my degree was about as far from a Russell Group as it's possible to get and, with my age and past, I felt I had a mountain to climb before I entered this process. I now find myself a year on, on a better salary with great prospects, having just bought my first house and getting married later this year.

So keep going, don't give up and you will get there.

Good luck, everyone.
D

by Andrew on 31 May 2014 21:30

Hi D.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your post and it's made me seriously take a different perspective on my aims and future outlook.

I wish you all the best, and I thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

Andy

by A on 18 June 2014 00:19

So far , I ve noticed everyone is complaining about how hard it is to get into a grad scheme, of course.. is a graduate scheme which in other terms, to me, is defined as the positions left after interns have been promoted. I have friends working for multinationals and one of them who works for JP Morgan said that aprox 98% of all interns (this was her case as well) are promoted to grad schemes which means that there are only 2- 3 positions left for outside applicants and that makes it even more difficult! my advise would be apply for and internship first , then hope for a promotion into a permanent or graduate position.

Hope that helps,


Best of luck,

A.

by Kate on 01 July 2014 10:08

Hi D,

Great advice. I remember being really fed up at certain points as most people are when they are working hard and it doesn't seem to be paying off yet. However self-pity doesn't do you any good and it isn't fun for the people around you either.

I would second that part about keeping trying and volunteering/doing an internship if necessary. Also even paid work you don't enjoy takes you out of the house, funds your future plans and means you have a recent reference.

by Sue Hunt on 02 July 2014 21:48

I agree that positions' are more readily available with a 2:1 - I was 1% off a 2:1 and have been requested for my certificate on every application. As a mature graduate - 45 - I am constantly being asked why I believe that they should offer me the position when I will not have as many years to give to a company, or to gain experience in the field, as someone who has a masters at the age of 22

by John on 05 July 2014 08:08

Hi everyone. I posted on here back in January (just do a CTRL+F and search for Luton and you'll find my post). I wanted to update you on my progress and my friend's progress. As mentioned in my earlier post, I had good, solid work experience, not just 5-6 months but four-five years worth of experience. I put 100% effort and left University with a First. I landed myself a job in the field I wanted within 2-3 weeks of leaving University. I had to turn down other job offers (i'm serious). Please note: I am not writing this to boast, I worked damn hard for it, it didn't just happen!

Now, my friend - the one who hasn't ever worked in her life - despite being 22 now is struggling massively. She joined up to sites such as this one and couldn't find a job. Recruiters don't even want to call her (she has told me this much) and she finished University on a low 2:2. No jobs want to even interview her. Let me stress this: No recruiters want to speak to her and she can't even get to interview stage (she's applying to normal jobs, not grad jobs because most require a 2:1).

Anyone who says grades don't matter are wrong. I don't doubt for a second that if this girl worked a hell of a lot harder, put in all those extra hours and attained at least a 2:1, her job hunt would be easier.

Now, i'm talking about a 'Met' University, so obviously this wont apply if you're in a much better ranked University, but it's still a valid point. I went to the same Met University as her - but i'm working for one of the largest firms in the world - she put in no effort, got a 2:2 and got no where. My advice to current students and those considering going to University: Don't get caught up in the drink/uni lifestyle too much - work hard every day. Use your time wisely or it WILL come back to bite you big time.

by James on 05 July 2014 18:25

Hi everyone,

I will be graduating in July with a 2:2 from a red brick university. Despite what has been said by some on here "people who achieve a 2:2 do not work hard or they are lazy". I worked damn hard for my degree. I have friends on my course who did not attend many lectures, nor put the work in and still achieved higher results than me. How is that fair?

Although I worked hard, it does not reflect my ability in my chosen subject - Mathematics. I taught myself two out of three of my A-levels, Maths and Further Maths, and achieved an A* and A respectively. I recently did three psychometric tests for a company I am applying for, achieving full marks in one, and above 95% in the other two. Further proof that I have the intelligence there.

I have Aspergers and I can safely say, university has not been for me, my learning style doesn't suit the way universities like to teach and I would strongly recommend that people think about that before they enter into this journey. Those that achieve a 2:2 HAVE worked hard for their degree. The fact that they can say "I have a degree" is an achievement in itself.

I may be in the minority here, but your grade at university does not measure intelligence.
(Due to the measurements of the degree, i.e. 30% in second year, 70% in third year, you could either score extremely well in one year and not the other, and vice versa and still come away with a 2:1.).

For those that haven't scored the desired 2:1 or above, plenty of people on here have taken initiative and looked for companies that specifically take those on that have achieved 2:2, or if you have mitigating circumstances still apply to the 2:1 minimum, plus there are government funded schemes to gain further qualifications.

Best of luck to all

by Herty Hertz on 19 July 2014 19:22

LOL at some of you lot.

Your grade at university is a direct result of the EFFORT you put in. There are many smart / talented people who weren't motivated by their course for what ever reason and ended up with low grades.

Therefore it is essential to re-evaluate your purpose in life, and think about what you want to spend it doing. Follow what motivates and interests you, and you will find satisfaction.

A degree is for the most part the product of memorising information / formulas and regurgitating them in an exam.

If something is important to someone they will do it. If an essay does not take priority in someone's life, they will not put effort in to it, and fare poorly grade wise.

So why do these non-motivated students do degrees in the first place ?? They are born in to a system of economic slavery and force fed the idea that the only way to "be successful" is to achieve a good degree, as this will make you acceptable enough to serve someone else and their business.

It's all b*******, find something you are motivated to do day to day and that gives you a purpose. If you don't do well in a degree, chances are it doesn't interest you much. Do something else. Life is not actually that short. You've got a lot of time. Don't waste it doing something you hate.

by At on 21 July 2014 13:28

Hi Guys,

Yes most of the people here are right most companies demand a 2.1 and you can't blame them because they have to sift students some of them get 1000's of applications so it becomes a struggle to separate everyone.

Having said that now I finished university with a 2.2 in Law and I am currently about to finish my Masters and I am doing an internship.

I have applied to companies that have specified a 2.1 in their grade requirements and have been successfully passed onto the next stage. By saying this I am not saying that you should go ahead and apply to every 2.1 grad scheme.

My advice is, is to re-evaluate your skills set and experience and see what you can offer to a potential employer. If you are really worried about your grade then I advise you to apply to companies that look for a minimum 2.2 requirements or companies that "ideally" want a 2.1 but are happy to consider applicants based on experience and extraordinary achievements like 'Atos' and 'PWC'

Being honest with you don't feel downhearted by your grade, I can tell you for a fact everybody regardless of there grade struggles to get on a grad scheme. I know people who have first class that are struggling and on the other hand I know people with 2.2's that have landed a graduate scheme.

It's how you approach each company, how you sell yourself to that company and what you have to offer in tangent with your grades and experiences.

To finish this of yes I have landed a graduate scheme and it starts next month, so no the world doesn't end if you graduate with a 2.2.

Just be determined, be resilient and keep applying and if you get a no then maybe do an internship for a few months build your commercial experience or experience in a sector you want to have a career in and that should open doors for you.

Hope this helps.

A

by Jan on 24 July 2014 08:53

You clearly did not read the comments on here properly and clearly have no idea about disabilities because if you did you will notice that most people here worked as hard if not harder than anyone else to achieve this 2:2, a degree is rated purely on how good your memory is within an exam, I have various disabilities and studied 10 times harder than my flatmates, spend many longer hours through many nights to get work done and study and I was most probably the only one in the house that was motivated to get this degree as this was something I always wanted to do and worked very hard to just get to university so to listen to someone like you just slagging people of as being lazy and unmotivated id disgusting, discriminating and distasteful.

by KK on 28 July 2014 09:19

Jan... surely that means they were more capable than you at learning and therefore more suited to the needs of the employer?

by James on 02 August 2014 21:28

Hi All!

Been monitoring this thread ever since it stated. I graduated with one of those pesky little lower second class degrees back in 2011, studied at University of Sheffield.

So employment background: It took me 6 months to get a job in a research house, then once that was over i was unemployed again for 3 month until i found the the company I'm in now. Decent pay i suppose, hardly stellar though, for London. I have been promoted twice in my current company for working hard doing a pretty good job and making sure my employers know i want progression, that last point is very important. As long as you are valued in a company they will try and keep you happy, if you are not valued, get out.

So what can i throw into the mix?

Well getting a lower second is pretty disheartening, a comment I've read before is that an upper second is like a safety net, if you get that you will be fine, anything else and you are screwed (that feeling of being screwed still strong in me!). Which is pretty true

Another thing I am sure most people are aware is that lower seconds are looked down on, "i got a 2:2" lead to the "YOU GOT A DESMOND!", or the classic tilted head reply of oh well sucks for you. Employers prefer upper seconds as they are "harder" to get.

So does 2:2 mean you are less intelligent than somebody with a 1st. No, but, somebody with a 1st could of easy got a 2:2, not all people with 2:2s could of got a 1st (in that degree at that university, they are all different you know).

At the end of the day degree class all comes down to how much work you put in your intellect has been assessed when applying for university, they take into account your background and lower the A level requirements for entry if you are from a deprived area, and will give a more stretching target if you are are at Eton or St Paul's (most people from Eton get straight As, I was one of two people to receive an A from my school). The whole 2:1/1st situation comes about as employers want people who actually do some work. Grad schemes which require a few brain cells will always look into your A levels and now GCSE's that sparkly 2:1 just shows you can do some work.

People stating that degree classification does matter "i only just scrapped a 2:1" really makes me feel great inside though, barely any difference in academic ability but 10x more interviews, not being treated with disdain by potential employers, not being automatically screened out by filters for real professional positions, being able to apply for masters degrees, MBA etc etc. yeah that makes me feel fantastic!

For the record i went to a school in the lower 5% of all secondary schools in the country, and suffer from dyslexia, and come from what is termed "a chaotic" family (i.e. divorced parents turning children into ammunition and step parents dying, well the dying thing might not be that common but defiantly adds to the chaos). So as I had a pretty atrocious start to life I guess I cant complain, in fact, if i got a 2:1, im pretty sure i would of ended up as a teacher. So missing that grade means I probably did myself a favor, i get paid more than all my teacher friends anyway...

But I still have the feeling that i will hit the ceiling of employment alot quicker that people with that "gold standard" 2:1, as at the end of the day employers start to want their employees to have further qualifications, graduate degrees, ACA, CFA, MBA, FFS, which are very difficult for peple with those pesky 2:2s to get on to...

Ohwell such is life.

Just keep making calls, eventually you should make a sale.

regards

"James"

by ljatt on 03 August 2014 14:48

I got a 2:2 in 2006 in both Maths and Computing BSc and then tried to get work experience for a year, but only got minimum wage type jobs, which I did. I also had many years of experience in a family business. Then I decided to go and do an specialist IT MSc which for which I did so much hard work, and graduated from that in 2009, and actually had already started some temp work before graduation.

I have now spent around 3 1/2 years in an entry level kind of role that gives me no training and no progression and low pay. Yet I still don't seem to be able to get into a starter role in a decent company. Really disappointed after all that studying. I should have just done an apprenticeship instead of going to Uni. I think I shall look for intern-ships to get the right skills or do accredited professional training courses.

by Sarah on 15 August 2014 14:24

Jerome what avenues did you take that Deloitte and Mars were keen in that gave you the opportunity?

by Giles Cattermole on 10 December 2014 18:37

Well, if your email - which includes at least 35 errors of grammar, punctuation or parsing - is representative, I'm not surprised at your difficulties in finding a job.

by Sam on 25 December 2014 00:57

I have been slogging through some of the comments and feel sad about the sheer ego emerging from some individuals in regards to the grades that they have achieved. I do not deny that coming out with a good degree classification looks good on paper and to employer's who may want to use it as a logistical tool for reducing the number of job applicants, however there is more to life than obtaining a dream job or making tons of money.
My advice to most is not to rubbish other peoples efforts but to applaud anyone who has made sacrifices to study and attain a degree.
Good luck to everyone searching for a graduate job!!!!!!!!!

by John on 26 December 2014 08:33

Sam, you said " I do not deny that coming out with a good degree classification looks good on paper and to employer's who may want to use it as a logistical tool for reducing the number of job applicants". Then you said "My advice to most is not to rubbish other peoples efforts".

You're rubbishing people's efforts by saying First and 2:1 degrees are used as a logistical tool. This is exactly why 2:2 and 3rd students struggle to get hired. There is a feeling amongst some of you that you are the same quality as a First or 2:1 student when that is frankly not the case.

by Dangerous Brian on 29 December 2014 22:43

I just thought I would share my experience.....

Firstly, never ever lie about your degree classification. It is a fact of life and if you get caught, you are going to get dismissed from your job.

However, your degree grade is not the end of the world. Trust me, I know. I got a third in 2000 and basically I had no chance of getting on a graduate scheme. I have no excuses, I just had a good time and made lots of friends.

Treat it as a blessing in disguise, I know I did. It taught me to get hired you have to learn practical skills that employers want. It also taught me there are no shortcuts in life. Everyone works hard, you have to learn to work smart. Volunteer for the crap jobs. Always be available. Take exams in your own time that have a practical benefit to your employer - you will get promoted fast. I promise.

I earn six figures now doing something at a firm where we only take on graduates with a first from Oxbridge / Russell Group. I worked my way up from the post room. Really came from sorting and delivering mail - it still happens all the time. Just remember there are no rules and it is up to you succeed in life.

A desmond or a douglas isn't the end of the world. It is a life lesson. Learn from it, crack a smile and get working.

by Thomas on 09 January 2015 22:35

A degree is a degree. The arrogant idiots who suck up and brag their way to a 1st are exactly the types of people I do not want to work with. My undergraduate programme was very biased and corrupt—lecturers giving higher grades to those who share the lecturers’ opinions, and condemning those who form their own opinions. I have known students to get their grades bumped up simply because they established a rapport with the lecturer—nothing more than a ploy to leverage their discretion. Thankfully, my profession is based on creativity and imagination—a type of intelligence that transcends any state-imposed qualification, and is possessed only by those who have their own systems of thought and reasoning. A degree does not necessarily reflect this self-sufficient paradigm, but a portfolio—a body of perceivable work—usually does.

by BobTheBuilder on 10 January 2015 12:07

dear all,

i just wanted to make a point that may or may not have already been made:

does the job really require someone in the top quartile academically to do it? probably not. i have to say that in my experience, i have never come across this need despite working in companies that employ tens of thousands of employees (including of course graduates!). what they require are skills, not certificates. if you continue to apply for graduate schemes you may be left disappointed. how many graduate positions are there on these schemes versus the number of graduates out there? sorry to depress people but this is for many an unrealistic option.

the simple fact of the matter is that unless you target work in a specialised area such as finance, computing or construction where specific degrees are desired, then your degree classification is fairly meaningless - of course it can be a sense of pride, but that's something different altogether and more allied to arrogance and overconfidence. sorry to say that but an employer would much rather someone that can stand on their two feet, explain where they went wrong, learn from mistakes, and act with confidence gained during an apprenticeship or work experience rather than specialise in grammatical pontification. a graduate scheme is the easy way out (if there were no competition) as it elevates you to a management level in many companies without experience and is generally looked down on by those who haven't been on these schemes. instead, those who have already worked it out succeed by taking lesser jobs, build up an understanding of business and reference experience rather than theoretical nonsense that you learnt in class - university does not teach many practical skills, and employers want practical skills, i.e. getting things done, problem solving.. and problem solving does not mean working out a calculation or route, but working with people 'who have attitude deficiencies' like on this forum.

does the employer want someone who is just academically minded and not able to apply himself - because there are many examples of this. what is meant by this? i have witnessed many graduates that think the world should come to them and this thread demonstrates a little of this - "i have a degree, so i am better than others who don't have one, or those who have a lesser degree". desire is your biggest attribute and the opposite of desire represents itself as someone unmotivated by the challenge of finding work. consider this: are you better if you have no experience of the job, but have a top degree versus someone who has competently been doing the job for five years? not in the employer's eyes and this view is the only one that matters when you want to be employed (harsh but true). be able to answer humbly and cleverly and overcome questions about experience, but don't believe a degree makes you better than the next person as this a sure way to be rejected by people in the work place - no one likes a smart ass. education is poor in things being black and white, life is full of colour, where wrongs happen and people have to adjust and take a hit sometimes. if you can't cope with finding a job, then maybe an employer is right not to give you a chance, so chin up (please). if you think things are as you were told, you are at an immediate disadvantage - experience what goes on and make YOUR best judgements. put the effort in and understand as much as you can about skills required for jobs in that field and then target that niche.

if people keep saying you don't have experience, keep practicing your answers (because i personally think communication and a willingness to get things done are more important to an employer than whether you got a first or second, or third, or pass). we have all been there, including probably the person interviewing. i graduated with a poor degree eight years ago and have always earned double the average salary and always been ahead of the curve. am i lucky? sometimes, but sometimes not as well. in this instance, no, because i made the effort to understand the entire jobs market and look for where i could be ahead of peers. i won't reveal everything here, but you need to put yourself out there and be strong enough to take people challenging you.

people here are unhappy because employers are unwilling to value their degree as if it was work experience. but if you had a business and employed graduates who continually failed because they thought the world would come to them, wouldn't you want to see a bit more proof that they could add value to your business (very few degrees can demonstrate value adding). in jobs where i've worked, value adding comes from being able to represent views, opinions, analyse, quantify, argue, negotiate, develop, explain, motivate, understand and manage a situation - these are vague but most graduates can only represent one view (their view, or any other they have read), analyse in terms of what they have been taught, rather than in the correct context, again literally argue rather than keep calm and struggle to remain polite, have no ability to negotiate and generally think that the world of work is about writing reports. they do not display an ability to get on with people and the current staff find them annoying because of their childish and obnoxious nature and lack of 'professionalism'. hiring a graduate is a risk because upsetting the whole team is a bad thing for a company and it can happen - many graduates like non-grads have no self-awareness, but after a year of work this does develop. do not see the experience of struggling to find a job as a bad thing, in my case it made me stronger and there's no reason why anyone on this board can't get a job. you just need to find a way of proving yourself..

my final piece of advice to everyone (and i do care and have been in the same situation) is to please display the skills you have in an interview - this means being positive about tricky questions, showing a willingness to learn and take on a different view (no matter how stupid), communicating clearly and enjoying the interview. there are very few interviews i have not enjoyed and i think that can make a difference. you are selling yourself but don't hard sell or under sell. if you can add something that most people can't and it's good for the business and relevant for the role, then you are giving yourself an advantage... good luck!

by Charlotte on 28 February 2015 15:54

I think you are extremely obnoxious stating that. It is rather immature and unprofessional stating that someone does not have the academic ability or simply stating they are lazy. I will have you know, I received a high 2:2 Law degree, but that was not because I lacked the academic ability or was lazy, it was because I was severely dyslexic, only diagnosed in my second year and went through extenuating circumstances.

Maybe you should re-think your brash statements, as I feel they are inadequate, as I am sure most people do as well. You do not know what people went through in their degrees, so to say something like that is rather childish.

by sjoyce on 14 April 2015 11:28

I am on course for a 2.2 with the open university and may, just may get a 2.1. However I have a full time high level job and a family. During my time I have hired several graduates and to be honest a lot do not have basic communication skills - in fact the worst assistant I had, had a masters and could not write a basic e-mail.

A degree is nice, it states you have the ability to research and write reports (possibly), the real world is different. I feel for everyone as I have a son with a 3rd who cannot get work, even though he achieved his degree in spite of being dyslexic and despite the fact they changed the course from being mainly course works (where he averaged equivalent to a 2.1 or a first), to exams where his dyslexia made it difficult even with some additional time.

I don't believe having a first should say you have particular skills because to be honest you don't. It may just be you are more equipped at learning what you need, but in the world of work it is mainly a matter of being able to cope with being thrown in at the deep end!

by Joshua on 11 July 2015 13:13

I have just graduated with a 2:2 on a joint honors degree course.

I was severely ill in hospital with a serious blood infection that had me off University for several months and unable to complete certain tasks and attend lectures.

I also was given Extenuating Circumstantial Leave in preparation to bury my Grandad and attend two funerals in my time at Univeristy. In consequence to this I missed a group presentation that I had to try and complete by sending in my portion of input via an email.

I obviously missed out on all the valuable marks one could achieve with good presentation skills and speaking boldly and with clarity.

I have received a lot of graduate offers in recruitment and a few a graduate estate agent interviews (lettings negotiator)

Showing you have the social skills, desire and ambition; researching a companies competitors attending company open events brushing shoulders with high ranking officials in the company all work to set you in good stead.

Having something like charity work, extensive travelling, sporting achievement at professional/international level all help to make you a more appealing candidate from your CV, just evaluate your unique qualities and experiences and be sure to note them down and show you can work well with people and will bring that company a lot of financial revenue.

by Jane on 21 July 2015 11:40

Not all employers feel that a 2:2 is a demonstration of either lack of intelligence or lack of work ethic (neither of which is necessarily the case!). There are many factors that can contribute to a lower than expected grade such as family circumstances, disability (e.g. dyslexia) loss of funding eligibility, the list goes on. You can turn this to a positive, as continuing to strive for your goals DESPITE these challenges is a character trait that is hugely valued by all employers.
As other posters have pointed out, it is down to the graduate themselves to overcome any negative impressions with a skilled 'sales pitch', leveraging personal networks and continuing to demonstrate the tenacity and determination to succeed.

by spanner48 on 21 July 2015 17:25

Without much effort, I counted over 40 errors of spelling, grammar and syntax in your posting. As an employer, yours would have been one of the first applications to go into the bin.

Forget the "3-4 years" at university; learn to write English.

by Anthony Miller on 12 December 2015 23:17

Well I left University in 96 and spent 4 months on the dole before getting a job and was then employed for 19 years. Careers are for posh and clever people so I went down the Job Centre and worked my way up from the shop floor and spent two decades earning quite well with terrible qualifications. Still I was dyslexic is my excuse but going the long way round (or as I prefer to call it the scenic route) has advantages. You learn life skills like cutting out the middle men. For example I got in what was then a good company by taking a temporary job when they needed casual labour. I then kept employed while better people were made redundant en masses by putting myself about between departments. Probably people with 2:1s and 1sts do have careers but the rest of us have jobs and sell our skill and labour. Getting a job is easy. It's just a matter of selling yourself and a bit of cunning. For example all graduate adverts these days say a 2:1 but that doesn't mean there's an infinite number of 2:1 graduates to go around. Many will apply to multiple employers and then drop out and then they'll need to fill up with 2:2s and 3rds. Anyone who wants to know my degree classification from 96 when I've got nearly two decades of work experience is too silly to work for anyway. I mean say I got a 1st in Computer Science in 96 ...we were still on windows 3.1 then ...it couldn't even duel process... Everything was Unix. True it was easier to get into the job market two decades ago but work was really rubbish then. I spent the first year digitising and getting rsi along with a load of other people going click click click all day. The thing was in those days there was no other way to do it. So yes people need more skills these days but these graduate salaries you're all so keen on... There are baggage handlers who earn more than some of. The real question is not can I get a job? It's is it a dead end job and will it lead to a better job... Etc etc

by John A on 20 June 2016 17:28

This is an old thread but I thought I'd reply with a fresh perspective. I am a non-graduate (left uni with a diploma to care for my family) but am now a risk analyst with a six figure salary in the City.

What you need to understand is that there's a difference between professional work and graduate schemes. Grad schemes are used like a marketing tool to nab the best 'talent'. As you don't really need much real world experience to get onto one, it becomes a much more a matter of how well your face (and grades) fits into the scheme rather than your ability to do the job (also remember that in most industries grad schemes are filled with the employees' relatives). And it's possible for a sensible brilliant potential employee to lose out on a pompous brat with no common sense but with a 2:1 from Oxbridge.

It's far better for someone with a 2:2 to directly apply for a job instead. In banking entry roles open to business/economics grads are PMO and analysis based. Go for those. Contract for a few years. Keep learning and you will outstrip the people from the grad schemes like I did. (I became a CFO at 30).

by Mr B on 30 June 2016 10:32

Hi all,

I knew this is an old thread, my ish is not really about employment, but rather about going further in my studies after obtaining a pass(2.2) in my MSc.

What are my chances of getting a PhD admission in any university here in the UK?. Funding is not an issue for me.

Please help educate me, as I am currently devasted. I did put in much effort but the structure of the course was not favourable to me being an international student. We had to write all our exams once towards the end of the study. And our modules were very voluminous, to say the least.

Thank you.

by Mr B on 30 June 2016 10:34

Hi all,

I knew this is an old thread, my ish is not really about employment, but rather about going further in my studies after obtaining a pass(2.2) in my MSc.

What are my chances of getting a PhD admission in any university here in the UK?. Funding is not an issue for me.

Please help educate me, as I am currently devasted. I did put in much effort but the structure of the course was not favourable to me being an international student. We had to write all our exams once towards the end of the study. And our modules were very voluminous, to say the least.

Thank you.

by lidiflyful on 04 July 2016 14:42

Hey guys,
This is an old thread but like John I thought that an update would be appropriate as it is clear that people are still searching for answers to this question. I am currently studying my MA in Research and I have a 2:2 undergraduate degree, and hope to go onto a PhD programme some time in the future. I do empathize with your interpretation that employers favor those with 2.1's but that is just because of the large number of people with degrees these days, they can afford to up the bar to keep the applications low. This is unfortunate for us 2:2'ers and especially frustrating for those like myself, I missed out on a 2.1 by 2%.

However I am successfully climbing the ladder within the healthcare sector, and have secured jobs that require people have have 2.1's and MA's mostly through my work experience and playing to my strengths.
I have learnt that having a 2:2 does not mean all the doors are closed, it does mean that you may have to show off a few of the extra strings that may be in your bow to secure a position, which is not bad thing as it forces you to expand your skills remit. For example, I always worked during university part time, I resented it lol, my parents did not have enough money to support me, and my loans were not enough to live on, but as a result I walked out of university and within 3 months I had a respectable position within the healthcare sector, many of my friends who got 2.1's the same year, are still bumbling about not knowing what to do as alot of them not have anything unique to sell to prospective employers...in other words getting a 2.1 didn't make them panic like I did when I got a 2.2! lol. Of course that's not the case for everyone, just in my experience if I had gotten a 2.1 at undergrad I probably wouldn't have continued to stay driven once I left university.

And remember, when applying for a PhD they do take into account your personal circumstances and your work experience, these people are not robots. If you have a 2.2 and some great work experience you will be on par, if not ahead of someone with a 2.1 on its own (depending on the type of work experience of course).

Just an after thought: While working on and being on university grounds, I have noticed that there is a lot of anger and frustration from new graduates who expect to walk out of university and secure the job of their dreams. I graduated in 2011 and I still have friends job searching and they say 'How could I not get it, I have a degree!!' the truth is, every Tom, Dick and Harry as a degree these days, and on its own it is not enough. This is the fault of the system and not the individuals, of course. Governments and universities should work harder to emphasis the reality of leaving university, and encourage their students to do extra-curricular work such as volunteering to better their chances.

by Alex on 12 August 2016 03:23

Ill be honest. I find it pretty hard to side with you, especially after the amount of grammer mistakes you made on your post.

I do, however believe a 2:1 is a sort of grading average that one can get in a degree they care about. I personally got a 2:2 in a degree that i now know wasnt for me.

Take that into consideration.... what are you passionate about.

by fiona on 13 October 2016 15:28

I think the comment of some people with a 2:2 as being not so bright is so unfair! have you never heard of favouritism or some pupils being more popular than others? does not mean the person does not have the ability- it might just mean that they were labelled from the beginning of their academia and therefore the suggested mark was given regardless!- i reckon there is much more to a 2:2 graduate furthermore the third sector route is a total waste of time- they just use you to the best of their ability.
It is the employers that are missing out- and the person that sold you the idea that a degree- with honours- was a good idea for getting work- that was a joke- more like it for them to get people on seats which is money making for the university- do not be kidded! if you undertake a degree with the idea that you will secure work-unlikely unless you have a 1st class degree- and they are few and far between- unless your face fits.

by anonymous on 16 October 2016 22:10

"I find alot of the graduate positions seem to lean toward the 2:1 preference yet i find that rather unfair as do alot my fellow graduates".
I quite agree with you. Indeed, PhD students have more chances to get a job, they are smarter and stronger than other graduates (although much later separated from their parents, as a rule). And yes, many go to graduate school. An excellent proof of this is the abundance of websites, blogs and forums and simple articles (like this one http://degreeway.com/blog/how-to-write-acknowledgement-for-dissertation) dedicated to graduate students, motivating them and giving them a lot of advices. I am a graduate student and have a need to reach out to others for advice, and I need to see someone like me, so I'm constantly on the forums on these issues.

by Archibald Buttle on 18 October 2016 16:45

"I find alot of the graduate positions seem to lean toward the 2:1 preference yet i find that rather unfair as do alot my fellow graduates".
I quite agree with you. Indeed, PhD students have more chances to get a job, they are smarter and stronger than other graduates (although much later separated from their parents, as a rule). And yes, many go to graduate school. An excellent proof of this is the abundance of websites, blogs and forums and simple articles (like this one http://degreeway.com/blog/how-to-write-acknowledgement-for-dissertation) dedicated to graduate students, motivating them and giving them a lot of advices. I am a graduate student and have a need to reach out to others for advice, and I need to see someone like me, so I'm constantly on the forums on these issues.

by letsbesuccesful on 18 October 2016 18:52

I had graduated with a 2.2 degree in a mathematics related degree 3 years ago and started writing a blog recently about my journey. I know it may not be helpful for everyone, but I currently am working at a big 4 accounting firm so there may be bits about my journey so far that may help some. I have posted the link below

www.successwitha22degree.com

Feel free to share and ask any questions :)?

by Stephen on 18 July 2017 19:00

Why do so many people think the world owes them something? If you studied something with a limited job market or something which has no transferable use in industry, that's on you.
You chose your course. You chose the level of effort to get the 2:2, 2:1 or 1st.
I don't say this to put anyone down but I worked my ass into the ground for a 1st in chemistry, I hardly went out for 4 years, that was my choice and I have always had work/ someone trying to recruit me.
Get up, do the work, earn it. LIFE OWES YOU NOTHING, it's your choices and nobody else's.

by Michael Brown on 20 August 2017 16:14

Before all the 2.2s moan, perhaps they should check their spelling and grammar. Most of the comments show a lack of accuracy and attention to detail. This could be a major problem when trying to find work.